Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Dibab, Oct 2, 2020.

  1. Dibab Augur

    I know there had been more than couple posts about this but what gives on not putting the Agents of change on live servers. So many people still very much want the Artisans Prize but many get bottlenecked around PoP progression. Why not just put these guys on the rest of the servers? They're on TLP, They're on Test. Everyone would benefit from this. It wouldnt exactly diminish the AP in any way. It's still a monster of a quest. I know you guys are busy with the new expansion, working overtime, everything, but honest question? would it actually be that hard to just insert them over here?
    Marton, Mazame, Raccoo and 4 others like this.
  2. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    They were created for a specific purpose, to alleviate choke points on TLP content to allow more guilds to experience content in-era they would otherwise have a massive amount of competition for & which on Ragefire led to some huge amounts of drama, a well-intentioned dev-team intervention in trying to alleviate the problem by way of creating a rotation that then descended into chaos and left the devs convinced a hands-off approach was better but that they needed to do something to address the massive appetite to experience content that was not instanced at that time - which was first realised with the Phinigel server's launch.

    So the devs position is very likely to be that they were not created to allow live server players to farm old content and/or that live servers do not have any need for AoC as they have no guilds progressing through that content (while the reality of course is no guild actually could even if they wanted to since almost all of that content is permakilled on live servers).

    Personally the position I take is they should be added to live servers if possible as they are even after they served their intended purpose a fantastic QoL feature that allows players to go back & get missing achievements & some iconic items they would struggle very hard to get on live servers as so many have that content pretty much locked down permanently. e.g. on live it took me a few years to get an Abashi on my Berserker due to how few times I was able to even find the mobs up.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  3. Febb Augur

    They have enough server stability issues as it is. Their infrastructure probably couldn't handle it. I don't think adding AoC's to live servers is in the cards for a while or even at all.
  4. Monkman Augur

    Selo’s will hit live around Feb or March, my guess is they will add them to all live servers around that time or you will see a mass exodus of players to Selos.

    Pro-tip for AP flagging - first make sure you have all important keys (aerin dar / saryrn tower / Solro tower / BoT) next free xfer to zek and flag yourself completely in less than an hour or two, wait 24 hrs, xfer back to home server (paid).

    There’s like 10 players on zek server... I’ve used this method twice on separate occasions and both times every single mob was waiting for me.
  5. Jhenna_BB Proudly Prestigious Pointed Purveyor of Pincusions

    I fear this is much the reason as to why we don't have AoC's on Live. They'd have to limit the amount of AoC instances on Live servers in some way which would mitigate the usefulness of them being added.

    Back when the AP was added to the game, I was lucky. I raided in PoP era on J. The only work I had to do was sit on spawns or run around and track for people. It was overly stressful on people at the time, especially with as many large, competitive guilds we have on Bristebane. That rush is over. I still carry the same opinion I did then - requiring PoP progression for the AP was unnecessary. It really should be changed, still.
    cadres likes this.
  6. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    I don't think so.

    I strongly suspect that once Selo becomes a Live Server the following will happen:

    1. AoC are switched off
    2. Additional XP will be reduced down to Live XP
    3. Halved unlock Timers will be replaced by standard unlock timers
    4. Truebox will be switched off
    5. Any spawn timers that were reduced will be replaced by standard live spawn timers
    6. Players from any TLP or Live server except FV will be allowed to transfer to here.

    It will at that point cease having any differences to current standard live servers.

    I asked the question about what happens to TLP when they hit live status but so far have had zero dev response so the above is just my best guess.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  7. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    A lot of this makes sense as I would guess that a lot of the TLP features are controlled by flags that will be turned off when it catches up to live and is no longer following a TLP schedule.
    Corwyhn Lionheart and Skuz like this.
  8. Allayna Augur

    By that logic, from your post, the competition for targets is by raiding guilds trying to farm those targets for gear.
    On live, it’s individuals who can 1 shot gods, so where you might have had 10-20 guilds competing for a target on TLP as a raid force, you have the entire population of a live server competing for mobs they can solo.
  9. Allayna Augur

    By that logic, from your post, the competition for targets is by raiding guilds trying to farm those targets for gear.
    On live, it’s individuals who can 1 shot gods, so where you might have had 10-20 guilds competing for a target on TLP as a raid force, you have the entire population of a live server competing for mobs they can solo.
  10. Allayna Augur

    PS, forum slowdown and increase in double post is real.
  11. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Pretty much spot on.

    From a developer standpoint though those are polar opposite ends of the spectrum & AoC were only created to cater to one of them & that was for when the content was current rather than decades later which is why I think they will opt to switch them off once a TLP that has AoC hits live, to my knowledge they've not even discussed the possibility of putting AoC on live servers.

    Personally I would like the devs to add them on live & keep them on TLP as a QoL feature, but there may be good reasons they don't want to do that.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  12. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    If they don't give them to live maybe they should be removed from TLP servers once the content is no longer current, maybe after 3 or 4 expansions.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.
  13. KermittheFroglok Augur

    I could go either way. On one hand they aren’t necessary on Live but on the other hand having them wouldn’t cause too much of an issue and would make out of era back content easier to complete. A lot of Live drama I see is around seemingly trivial raid targets like Seru over obsolete drops like his raid version of the horse mount. Another example are the old world dragons or deities that generally drop items that are generally meh compared to defiant drops. It definitely wouldn’t break the game economy or other players’ experience.

    I could get behind this because I think it would be a great selling point for AllAccess if it were ONLY OPEN TO ALLACCESS, to me AoC are a nice quality of life feature but should NOT be available to F2P or Silver players in anyway, ie can’t even have unsubbed box account enter AoC instant if a subbed player requests. I think that’d be the great way to get people with unsubbed alt accounts to sub.
  14. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Sure, they could do that, would be kind of petty though I think.

    TLP servers are only going to have them for half the time that live have been around at most, a quarter of the time that live has been around in most cases & in Selo's case pretty close to 1/12 of the of the time Live has been around. Given the much shorter time for TLP to go from classic to live status I think the devs figured just leave them in as it would be less work to just let the flags turn them off once live - is my guess.
  15. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Yeah I can see the value proposition you suggest there, All-Access players only being allowed to take advantage of AoC seems like one way to roll it out on live since F2P aren't generally allowed on TLP which is where the feature originated.
  16. Vumad Augur

    The game is old. They need to make time to alleviate these issues. The solution here is a quest that bypasses the PoP requirements, IF you are over level "POP is trivial" and the requirement has become stupid.

    The quest is simple. It already exists for trophies.

    Check: You are level 100 or higher.
    Check: You have skill 300 in all 6 tradeskills.
    Quest: WTF ever makes sense.

    Congratz to everyone who did PoP flagging and feels accomplished. I did most of it in era, but I sympathize for anyone trying to compete for a flag now as a single person will regularly kill the mob. It's a huge bottleneck to anything.

    Example: I played during PoP, a lot, but the ACH system didn't exist, so the hunter ACH requirement for the TBL gloves was not only stupid in the fact that I had to slaughter grey cons but also that I had already killed most of them in Era. But on topic, the mobs from Ruins come from the Bert raid, so it was the same bottle neck the OP is talking about, and it is dumb.
    cadres likes this.
  17. Captain Video Augur

    It seems like every month or so, there's another one of these threads asking for AoCs on Live. The main argument against is server performance. Live servers have many more zones being used simultaneously than TLPs, and that consumes a much larger amount of server memory. AoCs would just add to that. We have already seen many instances of server crashes when they run out of memory. The argument of "just add more memory" is something none of us can know, since the precise server hardware configs have never been published, meaning I assume they are probably already at their cap. Personally, I have nothing against the idea, but I trust the dev's judgement regarding what is safe for server stability and what isn't. I'm also not sure how restricting AoC use to subbed players helps any, because there are precious few F2P mains on Live; almost all F2P accounts you'll see these days are boxed alts.

    BTW, Skuz, I like your new .sig. I liked it so much, I reported you for it.
  18. cadres Augur

    Absolutely agree with what most folk are saying
    If we can't have an AoC, that's cool
    But for goodness sakes get rid of the PoP flagging requirement for the AP
    It didn't really make sense at the time (why would an artisan also need to be a raider?) and definitely doesn't make sense now. While there might be some retro/nostalgic amusement to be had from sitting at a spawn point for days, it palls pretty quickly
    Skuz, Dibab, Mazame and 1 other person like this.
  19. Dibab Augur

    In addition as i've been flagging alts for this, on /key we have credit for the "PoP Backflagging Quest - Odaen Quests. While its great that this gives us immediate access to the lower part of Ruins of Lxanvom it also means we can't do the quest and receive the flag to bypass Bertox.
  20. Xianzu_Monk_Tunare Augur

    They never should have added AoCs if they do not plan to add them to Live servers at some point.
    Yinla and Dibab like this.