Please remove truebox limit from Aradune.

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Viceversa, Jul 28, 2022.

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  1. Viceversa Elder

    It does have a decent amount of open world however its nothing like classic, In classic there is 2 decent exp camps for everyone Tss however you have 2 huge open world zones with a lot of mobs or a few different dz's for exp.

    Classic has a large portion of Bis gear coming from group content resulting in it a lot of gear selling for high value TSS however has very few items people need to farm making it not ideal for large boxers to farm, Plus if a 6 boxer full of naked necros tried to hold a camp down for 24/7, I'd have a good chuckle.
  2. Triconix Augur

    I'm comparing the set up of classic and TSS. For the most part, all content in TSS is open world, must like Classic. Why are you comparing gear and the itemization?
  3. Viceversa Elder

    Because how people go about getting gear and and experience is part of how a expansion is set up?
  4. Vnayin New Member

    Because its completely relevant to how the content is experienced.

    In classic you basically have to go through LGUK at some point to level as that is where the groups are. The problem with LGUK is that the pick size is too large so you can have the entire basement area devoid of spawns by 3 groups and still need more people to pop another pick. Toss in that multiple BiS Droppable loot drops there that sells for good money and you get lots of griefing. Allowing boxing in that environment would just add to the toxicity.

    Now in TSS Ashengate is a much bigger zone and the pick size is actually reasonable so that you'll get a fresh pick even if half the named aren't being camped. Same I think with Frostcrypt. Also none of the loot is sellable and worth farming, so you don't have people trying to monopolize one particular camp.

    So yes, both are open world content, but they are completely different in how they actually play out.
  5. Triconix Augur

    So you're saying that an open-world based expansion is devoid of griefing because...BIS gear is from raids? Do people not have alts? Are there no non-raiders? Do people not camp augs? Do people not generally exp in said open zones?

    There are reports of people griefing on Aradune right now where a certain guild that shouldn't be too fussy is reporting people and getting them suspended and it's not even fighting over camps. Where there is open-world, there is griefing, regardless of how petty it is.

    Again, I'm not trying to delve into the specifics of the most terribly itemized and designed era of EQ (classic) with TSS. I'm making a general statement that because TSS is mostly open-world, similar to Classic, there will definitely be griefing. I'll even go as far and state that if devs wanted to remake Classic using a more modernized itemization/design perspective, that it would look eerily similar to what we have in TSS. That's almost irrefutable.
  6. Captain Video Augur

    I doubt you have ever played this content on a TLP. Defiant gear drops in TSS up to Intricate (level 60); this gear is out-of-era and has stats which render original TSS gear itemization obsolete. The level 75 group armor quests (Tenish) are still relevant for a little while, until Elaborate Defiant begins to drop. Raid-level gear is its own thing.

    There are 10 non-raid OW zones in TSS. If you're going to compare it to Classic, then the TSS zones need to be presented as a level 1 will see them. Progression tasks in TSS will take the character through all 10 of those zones. No less than five (5) of those zones are in the current hotzone rotation.
  7. Viceversa Elder

    Absolutely, This is pretty basic math along with knowing how supply and demand work. If more toons need the item the higher the value. the more options for that piece the lower the value each item is.

    Sure there are some alts and non raiders who play on this server but pretty small portion of the server and nothing is in demand like Gebs or Fbss in classac was.

    If all the krono farmers could have made the same krono on this server they do on the new tlp's they would have never left.
  8. Viceversa Elder

    I don't hide myself behind fake forums names, I don't why you randomly jumped in again or what you are trying to argue with this post but, Hi I'm Vise.
  9. Yasi Journeyman

    How did we end up comparing Classic Boxing vs TSS+ Boxing, makes no sense at all.
    Fenthen likes this.
  10. Vnayin New Member

    Some one was playing devils advocate and claimed that because the content is all open world that TSS is classic 2.0....
  11. Triconix Augur

    More like the peanut gallery started an indepth analysis of said comment

    (Which still isn't refuted well at all)
    We aren't talking krono farmers, stop shifting goal posts. The initial statement was there is basically no open world content to be griefed at this point of the game. That's just plain wrong. There 100% is a ton of open world content to be griefed because the entirety of TSS is open-world with the exception of raids. That's just simply irrefutable. End of conversation.

    The extent at which griefing may go isn't as bad as classic because there are always the classic rerollers artificially inflating population, but I will guarantee you start a TLP in TSS and there will be vast amounts of griefing. We already have some occurring now in Aradune.

    The perceived lack of griefing isn't due to content design, but perennial migration patterns of players willing to repeat ad nauseum classic-POP content.
  12. Viceversa Elder

    So, Krono farmers?
  13. Vnayin New Member

    Talk about shifting goal posts. Some random hypothetical TLP that starts at TSS doesn't matter in the discussion on should we remove true box limit on Aradune. We are talking about Aradune today. If you're starting at level 1 on Aradune today you can pretty much level entirely to max level in zones with 0 other people in it. As someone else stated any particular camp doesn't matter from 1-60 because defiant gear is best. and post that most group level gear just rots as its no trade and no one really wants it.

    And I don't think people are claiming that there is 0 griefing going on, its just at much less frequency than before and if someone comes in and pushes you out of a camp there are still other camps that are open due to the pick sizes.

    Last Saturday I spent 5 hours with a group in Ashengate, we moved around a few times to a few different camps and only encountered 1 other group 1 time when we both were moving to different camps on the east side. Most of the time our pick had maybe 2-3 groups in a zone that could support something like 6 groups comfortably during primetime on a Saturday not long after TSS launch. The only gear we were after were some quest items and powersources. Anything with stats basically rotted and if anyone had come in asking for something they likely could have gotten it. That type of experience would be impossible to have in LGUK at basically any time during classic let alone on a Saturday.

    The whole point of this thread is that the classic rerollers are long since gone, so relaxing the box limit we won't see a big spike in griefing and would only help retain the few people still left on this server.
  14. Viceversa Elder

    I know you LOVE to argue on the forums and I doubt any refuting at all in your eyes is going to be enough but we laid it out why your Tss is classic 2.0 is just wrong, there are plenty of zones / options for Exp/ gear/augs that even if the population was still what it was in classic there would be enough options for every group.
  15. Sythrak20 Elder

    What exactly is there to be griefed in TSS? lol. Haven't seen anything like that on Riz, and we're the evil box server. I don't think a brand new server is going to change anything on an expac with very little competitive open world content...

    Either way it's a weak argument, there's griefing on every server. True boxing since AoC/Picks came out is an outdated concept. Stop supporting the garbage that's easily worked around in the first place.
  16. Captain Video Augur

    Hi Vise, I'm the Captain. My friends call me Video. Would you care to dance group? If you don't know the 2-box, I'll be happy to lead.
  17. Triconix Augur

    Do you release what 2.0 actually means? Version updates, tweaks, improvements. That's exactly the theme of what TSS is. It's a revitalization of the classic experience - typical DND theme, end game dungeons, rich lore originating from the classic era, large zones which cannot just be instantly ported to from the get go (without a porter), back to the main continent of Antonica, open world content with minimal instancing outside raids, etc. Saying TSS isn't classic 2.0 because it doesn't 100% match the design of classic is a lazy argument with no zero understanding of what the statement actually means.

    You're literally nitpicking threads at this point. TSS is exactly what devs would create if they recreated classic. It's a clean up of the awful design language that is classic/kunark - terrible, nonsensical itemization, non-existent class balance, too many "fly over" zones with nothing useful and introduces unnecessary tedium to travel and non engaging gameplay - while keeping what kept Classic EQ a diamond among the playerbase - lore, zone design, overall motif.

    And let's use some common sense. Increasing box limit means potentially introducing a new wave of characters to the game with absolutely no gear, AA's, augs, etc. You think a spontaneous influx of chars added to a server isn't going to result to an increase in competition/griefing in an expansion that is literally 100% open world outside raids? I have a bridge to sell you for a fair price, you interested?

    I'm more than fine relaxing the truebox rules to allow boxing on a single PC. I'd even be fine with 3 character limits, but the server was created with a specific ruleset in mind and I'd very much like to keep the spirit of the server rules intact. I don't hate boxers, I box myself many times out of necessity although I don't necessarily enjoy it. That being said, there are/were many servers with more relaxed boxing rulesets. You decided to go to this server knowing full well what the ruleset meant. The main selling point of the server shouldn't be tossed into the wind because now you suddenly feel it necessary to keep the server alive and well.
    Captain Video likes this.
  18. Triconix Augur

    Do you know what the word conflate means? Because you sure know how to do it.

    You statement implies every reroller is a krono farmer? Do you always make baseless statements or is it just this thread?
  19. Captain Video Augur

    On this point I would slightly disagree. When TSS was in-era, the only place where you would see larger congregations of people was in the newbie yards in Crescent Reach, meaning it was no different from any of the other starter zones. From there, the other OW zones, starting with Blightfire Moors, are highly sequential, so the levelling portion of the population spread out very quickly. The good in-era gear drops were all quested, and there are no long-respawn named. When you get that far, the raid-flagging tasks are all instanced. So, there is nothing there to grief over. That lesson was learned before TSS was designed.

    There are two unrelated issues being argued in this thread as if they are one. First is the Truebox rule itself, which applies to most of the older TLPs, and which has already been beaten half to death in other threads. We have to wait until the team's "evaluation" of the relaxed Truebox rule on the newest TLPs is complete before we can get any idea of what they will do next.

    By contrast, the 2-box limit rule is specific to Aradune and has nothing to do with whether Aradune is Truebox or not. The rule is there because many players asked for it. Some were even asking for a 1-box limit, and still ask for that today, but the team was unwilling to go that far. This "experiment" by the dev team is destined to last for the life of the server, for better or worse, so the argument that the health of the server justifies changing the rule is meaningless. What's really happening is that some players would rather that Aradune be a second Rizlona, and now claim to have taken over the server, and so are arguing that the server rules should change because "majority rules". Guess what, the team sees right through that.
  20. Viceversa Elder

    Guilty! But this whole back and fourth started with you nitpicking sada's post, So don't act like you aren't nitpicking too.

    You're one to talk about baseless statements and nitpicking, for the record I don't think all krono farmers are rmters, and I know for a fact every single krono farmers rerolls to the new server, I however have never heard anyone say they love raiding PoSky and VP and fighting over named camps with boxers so much they want to roll to every single new server for it.

    This seems like a double standard to fit your agenda. I'm okay with these rules being changed because this is how I want to play but no other rules can be changed is what you are saying.
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