Please remove truebox limit from Aradune.

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Viceversa, Jul 28, 2022.

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  1. Jalarm Jalar

    Are we to think that just because mischief players were promised random loot that it is wrong that certain loot isn’t randomized? What matters more, the sanctity of the rule or what works for the players on the server? Aradune would remain a true box limited server even if the number of permissible boxes was 3 or 6. Just like mischief remains a random loot server even when they change some content to not be random.
    McJumps likes this.
  2. Koshk Augur


    This entire, tedious thread can be described as follows:

    1. Some people (total quantity and percentage unknown), who signed-up for a maximum 2-box server, now regret their decision. Supposedly they did not regret this prior to Aradune's population declining. Which others feel was both inevitable and predictable, given the history of TLPs.

    2. Some subset of those people above, could transfer freely to Rizlona. But won't. Because reasons.

    3. A few people believe "the community" (whoever that actually is), are entitled to a say in these matters. They believe there's some form of democracy involved. Or there should be. Or that Aradune was specifically created for them, therefore they're entitled to a say or control over it.

    4. Other people have little-to-no sympathy for those people mentioned above.

    5. Other people don't believe rules should be bent, broken, or abolished, solely because they're not consistently or fairly enforced.

    6. Other people don't believe rules should be bent, broken, or abolished, just because certain people apparently lack foresight. Or are too stubborn to alter their own destiny, and insist on DPG fixing their problems.

    7. A few people are wearing blue and pink socks today, with kittens on them.
    Polekn and Tweakfour17 like this.
  3. Tweakfour17 Augur

    And 1 guy thinks Mercs count as boxes and should apply to the 2 box rule /palm
    Stymie and Koshk like this.
  4. Viceversa Elder

    Its funny how because you made it to live servers you think you are a expert on Aradune now and that because x servers made it with low population we should just be fine with it too and not try to have a healthy population going to live.

    Speaking of guild leaders crying you literally said because they didn't make a change you wanted in the past they shouldn't make a change to Aradune when it doesn't effect you in the slightest bit.

    Sure I knew of the 2 box limit when I signed up, It's why I only 2 box at most, However I was unaware that for the most of the server up until now they would not enforce it, I was unaware that they would allow 10+ picks of sirens grotto to be m q'd with 11 bots sitting in each zone for months, I was unaware that from day 1 there would be boxers running around to farm krono and I was unaware that after 2 years of the server they would start trying to enforce this, not by any any reasonable method either. by afk checking anyone that is getting reported for boxing.

    Do you have any kind of numbers of how many people are joining servers solely off the rules? When was the last time you joined a server past launch solely off the rules? I really doubt many people are joining servers post launch because they like the rules and not the era / people they know on the server.
    McJumps likes this.
  5. Viceversa Elder

    8. A lot of people who skim the thread, don't play on the server and have no idea what they are talking about but feel the need to reply with a troll post.

    - It's not the population decline thats bothering us, It's the way they are enforcing it at the wrong time of the servers life. But thanks for chiming in.
  6. Ishbu Augur

    The enforcement didnt lapse, it didnt exist from creation for 2 full years. How was anyone to know it even was a rule? You cant say it was stated because a special in game GM presence was also stated and GM introductions were promised, and that never happened. The only precedent set here is that it was not a rule. To punish people now for it, when the community largely agrees it should not, is malicious for no reason other than a weird power trip.

    Also, we know for a fact that a majority of people speaking up about this, and asked in game, support allowing more than 2 boxes. Any speculation to the contrary has absolutely no backing in fact, because only a very small minority of people such as yourself are even arguing against it, and some of you dont even play on the server, which is beyond sad that you think you need to argue about it while it has absolutely no bearing on you at all.
    Stymie likes this.
  7. Captain Video Augur

    The distinction between what is a server rule and what is game mechanics isn't defined by the players, it's defined by the company. They explicitly list what they consider to be "server rules" for each server in the launch announcement. If they go to the trouble of spelling out those details in the announcement, it should be treated as lasting for the life of the server. XP rate increases are in the launch announcement. Recent TLPs have had their XP rates described as "same as Mangler". Phinny came before Mangler, and XP rates were not mentioned in its announcement. They tweaked some things on Phinny a couple of months after launch, as they were learning things at the same time we were, but the defense to this argument, had it occurred, would have been that none of the things they tweaked were ever stated as server rules. Basically, the only server rules defined on Phinny were Truebox, instanced raid lockout timers, and the expansion unlock cadence. None of those things ever changed over the life of the server.

    Speaking of which, some common-sense allowance has to be made for operational issues. The servers' back-end architecture has evolved. Staffing resources have evolved, to a large extent in ways that could not be anticipated. Moving the unlock date of one expansion one week due to a resource allocation crunch is not a change to the server ruleset, as the advertised cadence remained the same. Similarly, moving unlock dates from Wednesdays to Thursdays for operational efficiency isn't a change to the cadence, and it's the cadence that's defined as a server rule. If they were to decide to change the unlock cadence from 12/8 to 16/12 going forward, to give players more time due to the advanced content, AA increases, etc., that would be a server rule change and could trigger the exact same debate we see here now. So, I disagree with the assertion that the "what you signed up for" crowd only cares about the boxing rules.
    Tweakfour17 likes this.
  8. Captain Video Augur

    Because there was, and still is, a pop-up box on the character select screen you have to click to acknowledge each and every time you log a character into the server; the rule was deemed that important from the start.

    And I'm sorry, but there has been prior rule enforcement. How do you think the term "Karendune" got coined? It was because the reporting of alleged boxing violations was weaponized, and on occasion some good players following the rules got suspensions, which I attribute (I hate to say this) to bad GM'ing. Many left the server due to it becoming so toxic, people who might otherwise have given a go at playing all the way through to Live. A small % of those, including myself, have tried to return after GoD launched, with the Kronolord cycle having ended at that point, only to discover this new layer of toxicity has cropped up in-game. Guilds falling apart? Leadership can't figure out amongst themselves how to consolidate? Don't anyone dare suggest that circumstance is because people; by now everyone should recognize it's because server rules.
  9. Gheed Is not reading your response

    You realize there is a massive difference between truebox with no character limit and non-truebox with allowed third party programs, right?

    Telling people to "just transfer" is an absolute joke of a response. It resembles telling people to go play on Zek to prove to DPG they want a PvP server starting in Classic.

    Not really a surprise to me that some of the most well known forum knights are here spewing that but hey, whatever lets you argue, right?
    PatCleric likes this.
  10. Tweakfour17 Augur

    I want to highlight this part. We and they are still learning things, hence why things keep changing. Each new TLP has evolved the standard every year but also changes happen after launch that evolve the player experience. OOC in GoD instead of TSS didn't just benefit Vaniki. Enchanter stun changes had almost no effect on Live but effected a couple of TLPs. Should the devs change things on every forum post whim? No absolutely not. Should they consider the frequency of common requests and the engagement these requests bring to gauge the server(s) wants and needs? 100%.

    Again, those were examples of things stated that were changed. Do I think having the 4 most populated TLPs launch new expansions the same day as the 2 new TLPs is a good idea? No, I support them moving things (with notice) to make sense. Not everyone did ("I booked days off for this months ago!!") or if they did they didn't agree on HOW it should be fixed. Likewise I think moving expansion release days off patch days makes total sense, but I'm flexible in my schedule so it doesn't effect me in a negative way. If some hypothetical person loved racing expansions day 1 and Wednesdays were their prime playing day and Thursdays were a non-starter due to rl commitements I could see them being upset. All we can do as players is give our 2cp and let the devs decide what makes sense and my 2cp is that rulesets should be flexible enough to provide whats best for the server and not just let servers dwindle away with unhappy players because something that was true at launch is no longer true. TLPs take 4-5 years to come full circle.
    Skuz likes this.
  11. Tweakfour17 Augur

    Go spend some time in the Rizlona discord and then come back and tell me that server is allowed third party programs. It's just them crying about being banned for using those "allowed" programs. Also, as long as they aren't afk how does it effect you if someone is broadcasting keys to their box? Fully automated was never allowed regardless of what may have been implied in that pastebin leak prior to launch.
  12. Gheed Is not reading your response

    I don't need to spend time there. That was what the server was described as. That's why they removed the block from certain third party programs on launch day after people complained. That's why it was 2 years before a peep about any suspension on that server occurred for third party programs.

    If they are now suspending the players for those programs then its almost like *gasp* the rules have been changed!

    You guys are silly.
  13. Tweakfour17 Augur

    Almost like enforcement on both servers took a long vacation and is now back. Free boxing was the only thing for Riz, not full macaroni automated 24/7. They only removed the block for the the boxing tool not the automation cheater tool. People didn't get popped so started doing more and more. Same with Aradune, they weren't super enforcing the 2 box cap so people got bolder. Now they are apparently.
  14. Gheed Is not reading your response

    Your point could be valid if people weren't being suspended on Aradune since day one. That is not true.

    But hey, whatever you gotta tell yourself.
    Tweakfour17 likes this.
  15. Captain Video Augur

    I believe this is already working as intended. I could keep going with the technical argument that none of the examples you cite were ever mentioned in launch announcements or character select screens, but my views on that point are already recorded here. I remain unconvinced that this rule change, if implemented, would have any bearing on the problem they say they're trying to solve, namely population. The TSS launch is really the last opportunity to bring new players into a TLP, and that moment has come and gone. The rules enforcement is very spotty; I believe, with a very few exceptions, that everyone now on Aradune who wants to box 3+ is already doing so. Where will new people come from? I don't see it. And some people will leave (including me, hooray! :)). I would expect a couple of the smaller guilds to disband. It could actually result in an immediate net loss in population.

    And don't ignore what's happening on Rizlona, which has some bearing on my thinking. There are Rizlona players posting in this very thread who still think third-party software use is legal on that server, when it's not and never has been. I have zero interest in joining a raid guild on Aradune which models itself after how things work on Rizlona, and which insists that third-party use is mandatory.
    Tweakfour17 likes this.
  16. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    Rizlona is the chillest server. Please, loosen the box limit on Aradune and keep those people from moving over.
    Tweakfour17 likes this.
  17. Tweakfour17 Augur

    So prior to Aradune and Rizlona there were 2 vocal groups, 1 wanted even less boxing than Truebox and the other thought Truebox was horrible and wanted free boxing. Right?

    So DPG gave each group their own server. 2 box limit, no limits at all.

    Now 2 years later when you boxing limits are..well...limiting, and you have the option to transfer to the free box server for free (something no other aged TLP has the option or ability to do) instead you want medium boxing? Where will you be in another year or two when the population continues to dwindle (it will)? Back here throwing your voice behind the Phinny/Selo/Coirnav/Mangler people who wanted truebox removed after a certain point. Aradune players had the first opportunity to correct the issues present on prior TLPs (before they created Yelinak and the relaxed ruleset) by having tight limits when it mattered and then moving to Riz when it became more of a hinderance that a help.

    But I'm the silly one =)
    Koshk likes this.
  18. Tweakfour17 Augur

    FWIW I also don't think this rule change should be implemented (now?), but I also believe we should be able to discuss it and challenge each other's ideas and views on problems/solutions servers experience. I do not believe any server's "core ruleset" should be so rigidly enforced/held to for half a decade that any discussion is stubbornly shutdown even if it becomes illogical just because it was in the launch post.
    Stymie likes this.
  19. Gheed Is not reading your response

    Yes, you are.
    Tweakfour17 likes this.
  20. Nozraku Lorekeeper

    It's worth mentioning that they (being DB/FPG) specifically said if you must afk, find a quiet corner of the zone where no mobs will agro so you cannot be accused of playing afk. Pretty sure the spot around Drizzlorn would qualify as that.
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