Please remove truebox limit from Aradune.

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Viceversa, Jul 28, 2022.

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  1. Tweakfour17 Augur

    I hate that you are both trolling and correct at the same time :( Of all the things that they change and have changed its sad and impressive that Truebox remains the one thing they have been adamant on leaving even when a large majority of whichever server is currently asking would support relaxing it.
    Skuz and oldguy71 like this.
  2. Jalarm Jalar

    Luckily the ask in this thread isn’t for true box to go away, it’s for the 2 box limit to be changed. Given that there hasn’t been a 2 box limited server, there is no clear precedent that compels them to keep that specific guideline.
    Stymie likes this.
  3. Quik Augur

    Except of course what is specifically stated in the FAQ and has been posted since before the server even launched...

    "Absolutely No Automated/Unintended Game-play, any incident of automated gameplay is immediate suspension, second offence is a ban including Aradune associated accounts.

    Boxing any more than 2 characters will result in the following actions taken against your account. First Offence: A written warning from the GM. Second Offence: A 7 day suspension of account privileges on all Aradune related accounts. Third Offence: Permanent ban on all Aradune associated accounts."

    And I also remember them saying that Aradune would stay this way until it eventually merged to another server at which time whatever the true box rules on the new server would then take precedence.

    People can argue all they want about changing this but again no one seems to admit they literally started on a server that STATED it would not change...and now they want it to change under the guise it's only fair, when the truth is, it would be extremely unfair to everyone that started on this server specifically for this rule.. I just don't get it.
    Captain Video and Fluid like this.
  4. sieger Augur

    Here's the deal--because they have consistently refused to change boxing rules midstream, that means a player can reasonably understand when they start on a new TLP, the boxing rules posted at launch are going to be the permanent rules. If those rules are to include a change to the boxing rules, on a schedule, they get posted when the server launches (like they have done for Vaniki/Yelinak.) To undermine this would be to tell players they cannot roll on a new TLP and rely on the posted boxing rules being maintained consistently. Particularly when a random guild leader crying about the rules on the forums would be the only real prompting for the changes on Aradune. That would be bad form and give the players and unreliable play experience.
    Quik likes this.
  5. Fluid Augur

    It's probably important to keep these servers going as is on some level if only as a monument to hubris.

    Everytime w/o exception people advocated that their particular view of what EQ should be would save the game and lead to prosperity & joy throughout the land! This was not kind or a forgiving belief that allowed for other opinions. For the last 20 years it has been the moral equivalent of "Woke", shouting down and insulting anyone with a different opinion.

    Unlimited sides really. I mean we have players that say all boxing should be banned and players that say here boxing should be allowed "to save a server." Same thing for the PvP crowd.

    None of these people employ any hindsight or self examination. I mean a normal person touches a hot stove and gets burned, they learn quickly it was a bad idea. Here they just keep rolling on with the same "I was wrong then but I am right now" rhetoric minus the addmission that they were wrong.
  6. Jalarm Jalar

    Sieger, your fears are unfounded. If you played on the server, you’d understand that this is not just one person asking for change but a lot of people asking for this small tweak. It would be terrible for Mischief and Vaniki if the devs all of a sudden stopped listening and making changes intended to make the server more enjoyable. By not listening to players on Aradune when they explain how their ruleset is or isn’t working and how they propose to change it to better fit with the spirit of the server, it sets an an even worse example for players of other servers.
  7. Tweakfour17 Augur

    haha I think Sieger knows a thing or two about a server asking for the removal of truebox :p
    Skuz likes this.
  8. sieger Augur

    The precedent set is that "majority rules" do not govern the boxing rules. It would be a disrespect to the player base to break that rule after well establishing it for previous TLPs.

    TLPers now have more options across a range of boxing rules than at any other point--Ragefire and Rizlona allow free boxing, Vaniki and Yelinak start with Truebox and then evolve to Relaxed Truebox and later no Truebox. Aradune you can enjoy a server with Truebox but also a 2 box limit. Mangler or Mischief you can play and Truebox without limit to the number of connected machines.

    It boggles the mind that it is the server whose rule should change when players who really want a different experience have been given that option.
  9. Jalarm Jalar

    Once again you seem to be thinking that this is about the removal of true box when it is actually concerning the loosening of the 2 box restriction. Sieger may be a massive presence on other servers, but he doesn’t play on this server and he doesn’t need your help to throw his weight around on this server.
  10. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    It’s an unique, special ruleset server. There’s no reason to change it, when the other server launched at the same time has relaxed boxing restrictions.
  11. Tweakfour17 Augur

    The problem is that your request is essentially the equivalent of asking the devs to turn off random and free trade loot on Mischief. Aradune's entire purpose/gimmick is the 2 box max rule.
  12. Jalarm Jalar

    It would be a terrible precedent to set for Mischief to show no flexibility. While it not be mischievous to make some specific drop not random, I think it can benefit the health of the server and well being of the players to show some flexibility on unique rules.
  13. Zapsos Augur

    But we don't WANT 'total unlimited maccaroni' wild west on a single computer.

    We want the true-box to remain and just scratch the 2 characters max limit which is already poorly enforced.

    So no, we're not looking to make Aradune a Rizlona copy, we just want our rules to align with a 'normal' Phinny clone TLP
  14. oldguy71 New Member

    There are reasons to change it, which have been articulated ad nauseum in this thread. The ask isn't to remove true box, but rather increase or drop the limit. A 3 character limit would still be a unique special ruleset server.

    The arguments for the health of the server are valid. The argument that its the rule, so you can't change it is invalid. Rules change all the time some for the better some for the worse.

    Maybe the devs don't respond and the majority of players transfer to Rizlona, so what, at least they asked and opened a discussion. I don't understand all the hate for opening a dialog.
    Stymie likes this.
  15. Jalarm Jalar

    Doesn’t need to be a clone of anything. Just loosen the restriction in some way. People don’t seem to want 72 boxers running around but they would support 6 boxing with true box. That way you keep to the spirit of the rule without letting the rule completely choke the server to the point where it decreases enjoyment and engagement of people actually playing on the server. The template is the changes they’ve made to other special rule servers like the de randomizing loot they have done to keep Mischief engaging.
    Wyora likes this.
  16. Quik Augur

    Well let me add one more thing to my argument...

    If they aren't even trying to control the amount of boxers that are doing it now, which it does not appear they do on any server, I'm not sure it matters whether they change the true box limit on Aradune or not. In this particular case, since they have no intentions of policing this, it might as well be changed.

    If they are making attempts then it should not change, period.

    And yes, I totally get you are not talking about removing true box, but you ARE talking about raising the limit which again is SPECIFICALLY listed as 2 in the FAQ that EVERYONE could easily read before the server ever started. The whole point of these rulesets, and the fact they are listed before the server starts, is to let people try to find a server that fits their playstyle. It seems to me everyone here AGREED to the 2 box limit by choosing this server, but now they don't like it so basically screw those people that did choose this server for the 2 box limit and don't want it to change.
  17. Quik Augur

    This raises a an excellent question for people wanting it to change.

    Who gets to decide what the max boxers would be?

    You all seem to agree that 99% of the population on Aradune wants this change, but can ALL of you pick a number that is fair?

    Some might want 3 box limit, some might want 6 box limit, some may not want a limit.

    What is going to be a fair number that won't have the same people saying it's unfair now, saying it's unfair again in 2 months?
  18. Jalarm Jalar

    Just because there isn’t complete, uniform consensus on exact numbers of things or how to change something doesn’t mean the answer is to do nothing. Discuss, consider, and compromise. Just because some Mischief players may want certain things un randomized and others want them un randomized but in a slightly different way doesn’t mean that Mischief players want nothing to happen or that anyone will be happy if the devs do nothing to help them modify their special ruleset server.
  19. McJumps TLP QoL Activist

    I think most people who are in favor of this change would be willing to compromise. I think raising the limit by just one to a 3-box limit would mostly alleviate peoples concerns. With a 3-box limit you could easily flesh out a group with mercs once SoD goes live. I don't really understand the pushback to this when most of the people who are against it also howl about the rule not being enforced since classic. If what they say is true, what is the difference between allowing a 3-box limit and not enforcing the 2-box limit? Seems like any negative effects from increasing the 2-box limit would already be apparent.

    From what I understand about the talk of relaxing truebox on Vaniki and Yelinak, allowing 3 boxes on one machine would be the first step in the relaxation process. I currently only play one character on Aradune, and I really have zero plans to play another unless truebox is relaxed, and even then, I NEVER plan to play 3 at a time. Just because I don't plan to do something is not enough reason for me to oppose others doing it.

    The gameplay on these servers that are in TSS and beyond is such that even if a person is 6 boxing, it normally has no bearing or effect on my gameplay. I think the 2-box limit was a good rule for the first year or so of the server. But at this point, the game is played differently and I don't think removing or increasing the 2-box limit would have any negative effects. I invite the people who oppose this rule change to point out how the server would change.

    Again, if the 2-box limit is never removed, it will have ZERO impact on how I play the game. But raising the limit would have no impact on me personally, with the added bonus of maybe, possibly extending the time on this server where we have a healthy population of characters.
    Stymie likes this.
  20. Rhythar Augur

    Changing the rules to allow 3-boxing plus 3 mercs so that 1 person is controlling a whole group really destroys the whole point of the server. That's what they made Rizlona for.

    The only rule change that I think would be appropriate for Aradune would be to treat mercs as boxes and limit them accordingly.

    As a general rule, boxers hurt server populations. The typical player does not want to box or share a space with boxers.
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