Please remove truebox limit from Aradune.

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Viceversa, Jul 28, 2022.

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  1. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    I recall someone on staff around the pre-launch/launch window saying that this dedicated GM measure was a trial - I do not remember a timescale being given either though if it actually lasted more than 3-6 months I'd be surprised, nobody really expected that to be a permanent fixture just ran as a cost/benefit analysis thing.
  2. McJumps TLP QoL Activist

    More blatant speculation. Your argument of "I like the rule and I don't want to further elaborate" just tells me you have no valid argument. One side has presented valid points as to how this rule is no longer needed. You say that you would stop playing on the server or transfer to another server, yet you fail to establish why you would do so. To what degree would this rule change impact your gameplay? If you cannot answer that simple question I have to assume that it would not, in fact, impact your gameplay at all and you, like many other people on these forums, choose to be a contrarian and disagree with any suggestion or idea. I have seen you in other threads doing the same thing you are doing here. If you are unable to articulate the reason you don't want the rule changed, why bother to post here other than to argue for arguments sake.

    I ask you this: The devs have already said that depending on how things go with Vaniki and Yelinak, they would be willing to relax Truebox on other current TLP servers later in their lifecycle. Would this not set the same "dangerous precedent" you speak of since Truebox was at the core of many of those rulesets? It seems to me that the recent receptivity of the devs to new ideas since the shift from Daybreak to Darkpaw has gone largely unnoticed by you.

    Those of us who have asked for changes in the past and have been granted those changes know the power of these forums. Look through my post history if you wish. You will find many threads by me asking for things that have eventually been implemented into the game.

    As far as the health of the server is concerned, I saw what happened to Phinny later in its lifespan, how we begged for Truebox to be removed, and how when it was not, it impacted the population of that server. I feel that the 2-box limit will do the same, if not worse, on this server. We already do not have the population that Phinny had at this point. Just because things are going well now, doesn't mean that 18 months or two years from now things will not be bleak. When someone speaks of the health of the server, they are usually looking ahead. I have to assume that you have not yet made it to that point on any TLP server. Otherwise you would be more capable of understanding what this rule is eventually going to do to this server.

    As I have said before, I only play a single character. So whether this rule remains in effect does not directly impact me one bit. But having played nearly 5 years on Phinny, I can see the writing on the wall. I know what's coming. The 2-box rule will eventually need to be removed or it will inevitably impact server population. Maybe you will have moved on to the next TLP by then, and if so I wish you the best. But for those of us who are here for the long haul, it is important that we start asking for this change now, as these changes never happen overnight.
  3. Viceversa Elder

    Same few people? go count again please. more like the same few people trolling with no valid reason.

    Yes I am a guild leader of a very healthy active guild, I think we have the largest active player base on the server currently. I have actually taken feedback to the official discord in the past and was pointed to the forums for giving feedback, So please enlighten me with which discord you are referring to?

    And yes we do get to constitute what we consider a healthy server, we do get to voice what changes we think need to happen to make the server last longer, Weather dbg decides to do anything or not is another story, But we have spent a LOT of time on this server and most servers in the past have been in similar situations and they too voiced there opinion.

    At this point its very obvious you are either trolling or are very ultra casual player on the server, and have very little clue to what you are talking about.
  4. Captain Video Augur

    Oh good grief. I am not arguing this point, and never have been. You and Vise have spent 10 pages trying to get me to play devil's advocate for a dev position, and that's not my job. If you want a dev response on this topic in this forum, feel free to ask for/demand one (good luck with that) and see what happens. Please leave me out of that process. I have said I want, and I expect, this rule to continue on this server; that's all it means, no more no less. You claim I haven't noticed more receptivity to new ideas? That's like saying I haven't noticed that Mischief, Thornblade or Vaniki even exist. As Spock would say, highly illogical.

    The Truebox rule and the 2-box limit rule are two completely different things. Every time you mention them together, you're mixing apples and oranges. Has the Truebox rule hurt server pop in late-game era on prior TLPs? I have no idea and have no opinion on the subject. It doesn't affect me personally, since I have never subbed to more than two accounts, so I never box more than 2 on a TLP. My home setup makes this very easy. Relaxing the Truebox rule would not affect how I play. I agree there is a general consensus that applying such a rule to pre-existing TLPs might help server pop, and certainly couldn't hurt, but it's not my call. In answer to your question, yes it could set the same "dangerous precedent". We'll all just have to wait and see what they do. People here keep trying to make a hyper-legal argument out of this point, and in so doing miss the fact these are business decisions by the company; they are free to do whatever they like for whatever reasons they may have. It's their ball.

    The precedent I care about is that they promised to launch one specific server with this 2-box rule, and then see it through. They even announced they were naming the server in honor of Brad, as a tribute to his preferred style of play. Many others besides me have already pointed out that it shouldn't even keep that server name if the company won't live up to the original commitment. It is not even close to the same situation as is the case with the Truebox rule. You can say how you think the 2-box rule will also hurt server pop down the road, but as of now that's just as speculative as what you keep accusing me of doing.

    Phinny had larger numbers at this stage because it was the first TLP with timed unlocks, and that was still a novelty. Mangler's numbers were lower than Phinny's and yet it's still chugging along. Aradune was a whole lot more toxic during its first year than any of the other TLPs have seen, and that hurt its pop a good deal, from which it might not recover no matter what the ruleset is going forward. If the real late-game problem is burnout, which is what I suspect, the rulesets won't matter on any of these servers. Getting one guild's worth of players to the finish line is (will be) quite an accomplishment as I see it, and that's the objective here.
    Quik likes this.
  5. Sythrak20 Elder

    This happens every time a server hits omens+, not sure why people thought it would be any different on Aradune. Stop supporting truebox servers that only the tlp recyclers that do open world care about.
  6. TheAgenda Augur

    This is why I say “TSS start ftw”
    Skuz likes this.
  7. Zerker Journeyman

    Are there not in-game polls to determine what the mass of people really want? If 90% of the server wants this relaxed but the 10% whom don’t scream the loudest on the forums, why are we still discussing it? Oh no, there’d be a few bitter whiners who claim they’d jump ship and break ol Brad McSnorty’s heart, boohoo — the mass of people on Aradune (and EQ) hate those people anyways, why do you think they hide behind fake forum names? Daybreak, for once, do what’s right by the community; put a poll up and see what WE really want. Not these forum trolls. KkTY.
  8. Quik Augur

    I re-read the FAQ for Aradune and it specifically states the true box rules. No unattended gameplay and that you would be limited to 1 box account only useable on another computer.

    Are people mad because they are sticking to the rule set?

    If I had picked Aradune specifically for this reason, and I see it as a valid reason, in what world is it fair to take that away from them?

    I'm curious, how would an in game poll be any more fair? So if the amount of multi boxers/botters now exceeds the people who joined the server specifically for the single box limit, it suddenly becomes fair to penalize those players by changing the stated rules after they have dedicated their play time to this server?

    I have no stakes in this game as I am on Yelinak, but I would be pissed if they suddenly changed my server's rules after I had lvled my toons and spent so many hours of my time because suddenly I am now in the minority.

    People really thinks this is fair?
    Captain Video and Rhythar like this.
  9. Tweakfour17 Augur

    The needs/wants of any given population changes over time. Its why we have elections frequently as well, just because something was one way once upon a time doesn't mean that is something that is still wanted years later.
    Skuz likes this.
  10. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    If a server has 250 players on it & 249 of them want the rules to change the rules should stay to keep that 1 player happy?

    Fair is subjective, and when you have an overwhelming majority who want a reasonable change versus a hardline minority who go against the grain who is being fair to whom?

    In my own time on TLP servers the vast majority like Truebox up to a point, beyond Omens they almost entirely would like the option to multibox on one PC with a tiny few sticklers objecting, on Phinigel we had 1 player arguing against changing versus well over 500 players when we started asking.

    That's a whole lot of consistency bias for a really tiny minority grinding against a large swell of players who would like to see changes & it's hard to see that vocal 1 or few as anything but malicious curmudgeons that just enjoy being contrary.

    Were we seeing more than 20% of the server saying hell no to changes then they'd have a solid case, but it isn't ever like that, its literally 1 or 2 individuals saying they want the rules to stay - and we don't even know if they even play on the actual server as a rule, they could just be forum trolls.
    Stymie and Tweakfour17 like this.
  11. Quik Augur

    This is very true, but a change on a server is not like an election.

    An election is more like a new TLP being released with new rulesets. The old TLP's stay and the new ones give people options to change to if they wish.
  12. Quik Augur

    Very good points. If it was really 249 to 1 then it becomes a pretty obvious decision, but what if it is 2000 to 1000? Those 1000 are still a decent amount of population yet a poll would still show them losing. I don't think it would be a valid reason to change since it was literally stated on the rules that this server would be the way it is.

    Most TLP's, correct me if I'm wrong, maybe it was just Yelinak, say that after a certain time it would open up more boxing opportunities. Seems pretty simple that the servers that state it will open more boxing as certain expansions happen would make the change, but if a server stated it was going to be ONE box from here forward, well to me that is just as simple.

    Now I say this with 1 caveat, if we are talking the server has 1000 people and 990 want more boxes and literally 10 are saying no, well then that is a little harder but even then, someone needs to explain to me how is it fair that those 10 players picked this server based on the single box ruleset and now because the other players don't like it, they are shafted?

    Here is a real life example that is a true story from where I lived in Central Oregon....

    A lady has had a kennel with dogs since 1969 and it was out in the country with no one else around and she still has the existing license showing she has rights to own and run a kennel. Fast forward to 2009 where housing has encroached on her 5 acres she has owned for 30 years. Now people live around her property and the new neighbors complain they don't like the dogs barking or the smell and they take her to court to force her to get rid of her dogs.

    This is EXACTLY the same situation that this server is going through. Can someone honestly tell me that this lady (players that started Aradune liking the ruleset) needs to get rid of her dogs because the neighbors (players wanting to change the stated ruleset) don't like it now? So if the entire town of Madras decided in the neighbors favor, this lady who has been here longer then 99% of the population of the area is now obligated to change her entire business?

    BTW, if anyone is wondering, the judge dismissed the case with prejudice and admonished everyone for even trying.
  13. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Yelinak & Vaniki are, to date, the only TLP to have phasing out of Truebox as part fo the ruleset from the start, all of the prior TLP have been Truebox from start until they hit live status.

    A bunch of players have been asking for a phased out Truebox since Phinigel matured (had another TLP launch after it), and it has been the same on every single TLP that has, including Agnarr, each has had a large number asking for Truebox to be turned off or relaxed at the very least. Aradune is just the most recent & I doubt it will be the last.

    At least the devs are exploring the idea with Yelinak& Vaniki, for Selo, Phinigel & Miragul players they got ignored, I hope that the devs do listen to the strength of opnion on this subject but I would not be surprised to see them stick to the plan of waiting until the two new TLP have moved past the phasing out stage to assess the benefits. Which I think would be a shame.
  14. Captain Video Augur

    You're not paying attention to what you've read. The argument isn't about the Truebox rule. The argument is about the 2-box limit rule, which is specific to Aradune, and which has absolutely nothing to do with whether the server is Truebox or not. That's what the OP is campaigning to strike down. There isn't anywhere near the same consensus on that as there is regarding Truebox itself, and continuing to drag the word "Truebox" into the conversation is an obfuscation, IMHO deliberately so on the part of some. I play on this server, you don't, and so I think I have a much better grasp of the underlying issue.

    It's not me vs. the entire rest of the server, either. Maybe only 20% would vote to keep the 2-box limit, if there was such a vote, I dunno. The 80% majority have been violating this rule and literally cheating on the server since day 1, and arguably deserve to be kicked off. Maybe the server would die as a result, but better that than to make it legitimate conduct in this game for the large guilds to bully the small, up to and including changing the server rules around whenever they feel like it. I don't think the dev team is stupid enough to buy into this tactic, but we'll see. The noise didn't start until recent rounds of suspension on account of the 2-box limit rule, and I don't think that's a coincidence. I smell just a little bit of fear.
  15. TheAgenda Augur

    Aradune folks that don't like the box limit should just agree to mass migrate to Rizlona
  16. McJumps TLP QoL Activist

    To see you state that you would be fine with the server dying invalidates any argument you might have. The ultimate goal of all these servers is to maintain a healthy population until we reach live. I really cannot believe the audacity of the statement you just made.

    If it is in fact 20% to 80% then not only does it nullify your previous arguments that you have made that YOU are in the majority opinion, it shows your lack of interest in Aradune as a server, leading me to believe that you either do not play on this server, or you are simply a tourist here and have another server as your main server.

    If it is in fact how you believe it to be and 80% of the server has been cheating and circumventing the rules since day one, how would changing the rule have any effect on you at this point? As it stands you are now contradicting your previous posts, and this is the last time I will respond to you as I suspect you are only posting here out of pure boredom and need a reason to be argumentative and contrary.
    Stymie likes this.
  17. Jalarm Jalar

    I play on this server and I only 2 box. I would like that the 2 box limit be lifted even though I don't intend to play more than 2. I get that there may be a small minority of people who play on this server, like Captain Video, who seemingly believe that it doesn't matter if the server dies but that's not how I think the vast majority of players feel.
  18. Thez69 Elder

    I dont think its fair to say they got ignored, the new servers with the relaxed/removed truebox gotta be a direct result of all these complaints/feedback from previous servers. Feels like they dont view tlp players as selo or mangler or aradune players, your tlp players and now tlp players have what they been asking for

    As for aradune, man im having a hard time finding a care that you guys signed up to play the only server with this dumb 2box limit and now you dont like it. Continuing to support the server shows them you approve; leave or suffer
  19. Potawatomi Augur

  20. Archaide New Member

    Need the ability to play more than one bard at once, can't do it ATM.
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