Please Allow Baz /trader for Silver Veterans.

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Sybn, Jul 6, 2019.

  1. Andarriel Everquest player since 2000

    dbg would prob just give these people a slap on the wrist but what needs to be done is ban people there cheaters. I manually do prices on my trader and it takes awhile while these people that use these programs can have them automatically being done for them.

    Andarriel
    Duder likes this.
  2. Balthozzar Elder

    I upvote this. I don't know how this might interact with the problem of 3rd party scripts updating people's prices (I didn't even know this was a thing and hate it), but I really don't like that the more I play my characters, the less time buying/selling they have.
  3. Balthozzar Elder

    Why should someone have to pay for a full subscription just to be able to buy/sell at the same time that they play their actual adventuring character? Does the concept of consignment selling/buying not exist in this version of Norrath? The bazaar is a single feature of this game that DBG's other EQ game, EQ2, had built in at the beginning as being separate from your adventuring.

    The bazaar functionality started with Luclin (EQ's 3rd expansion). At the time, it required your account to be logged in to function, there was no offline option (and no buyer, either). I don't know, but I would guess that these limitations were more about programming than design, including the eventual introduction of offline mode. If there is a way for them to change it so that offline buyers and traders don't count as your 1 character online per account limit that doesn't take too much programmer time, then I don't see a reason not to do it.
    Allayna and Andarriel like this.
  4. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    Look again I was responding to someone else.


    Darchon_Xegony said:
    “At this point why is being an online trader even an option anymore? Is there any reason legitimate players want to leave their computer and trader online versus having offline be the default mode? Want to enter trade mode, you get a confirmation box, if you accept you enter trader mode and go offline.”
    Duder likes this.
  5. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    Why can't a player go on two raids at once and get gear from both? Why can't you do tradeskills and also run around grinding exp. The game doesn't let you perform multiple actions like these at once. So you can't be a trader and raid or exp or run around. Not sure why this is confusing.

    I get you could do both in EQ 2 but its just not part of EQ. Lots of games have features other games don't and vice versa. No right and wrong here.
    Miss_Jackie and Duder like this.
  6. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    I have seen someone suspended for modifying their game files to allow over 2 mil selling in the baz. And yeah its irritating that they can't catch trading bots. Sometimes you can take advantage of them but if they are smart not so much.
  7. Duder Augur

    Thanks for clarifying, hard to tell if people are responding to individuals or to the conversation in general.
    Andarriel likes this.
  8. Balthozzar Elder

    This is confusing because the examples you give are of things that you can't actually do together because the character couldn't be doing those things together. In principle, you could be running two accounts where each is in a different raid, but then that takes two accounts because they would have to be different characters. Also in principle, you could be doing tradeskills while grinding xp, but the group probably wouldn't appreciate it if you were clicking away in some portable container like a spit or sewing kit or something rather than giving your full attention to the group, not to mention the ridiculousness of thinking the character could be doing both at the same time.

    But consignment selling is a real thing in the real world. The fact that it exists in a game made by the same company (and therefore at least some of the same people) that did the bazaar in Luclin tells me that they recognize that it is a perfectly reasonable mechanic to have in a game because there is no need for the character to have to sell his/her own stuff directly all the time.

    I just don't see any real world or in game logic in why it would have to be that you need to have your account locked into being a seller or buyer. If it would take too much programmer time to change, that's one thing. But this is a feature request that is otherwise perfectly reasonable.
  9. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart


    The whole point of it is that there are some things you can't do at the same time in Everquest. And when it comes down to it the reason is that is just the way it is. Well that and most likely its all too hard and would take way too much time to change.

    EQ2 was built from the ground up to allow non character trading to occur. EQ was not built that way.

    When they created offline trading they would have added consignment selling if they could have done it or wanted to do it. They didn't.

    Not sure of the logic of saying if a feature is in one game by a developer that it has to be in another.
    Miss_Jackie likes this.
  10. CrazyLarth Augur

    don't they have the auction channel for silvers
  11. Elyssanda Bardbrain

    depends on your server. that's not a set thing, which is why so many servers get spammed in Gen Chat.
  12. Balthozzar Elder

    There are some things that players are explicitly paying for. Expansions - have to pay for the new content and features included with an expansion. Subscriptions/Krono - needed to play on progression servers, wear prestige gear, use the bazaar, etc. DBC - Hero's forge, heroic characters, various other marketplace items and services.

    All of this goes toward paying the salaries of the people that do all of these things. Also included though is all of the bug fixes, hardware maintenance, new content at anniverseries, and "quality of life" improvements that occur over time. This is a quality of life improvement request. Persistent games MMO's add features all the time (like EQ has done many times on so many things over 20 years) when it makes sense because they want to maintain the goodwill of customers that are paying for all of the other stuff. They stop playing and therefore stop paying for everything else if they don't maintain this goodwill.

    I played in 1999 when many tradeskill items didn't stack that now do, nothing at all stacked past 20, we didn't have nearly the storage options we do now, you couldn't buy or sell more than one thing at a time, stackable or not, there was no "Make All" button or tradeskill interface and you had to move each item into the forge, click "combine" for each item you wanted to make and hoped you didn't mess up because it would eat all of your components if you didn't match the recipe. All of that was changed later to improve the playing experience, and it was added because they could change it with a reasonable amount of effort given how much the players would benefit from it. They didn't tell us that it was just the way it is.

    I explicitly said in my last post that if the cost in developer and programmer time is too high for the amount of improvement, then I'd be fine with them not changing the bazaar functions to be available while the player has a character outside the bazaar doing something else. I would say the same for anything any player suggested as an improvement that has no downsides that anyone was mentioning. That is a reason. "That's just the way it is" is not a reason. It is the absence of a reason. I know that EQ2 had that functionality built in from the start. That shows that the people making that game thought it was a good idea that the players would like, as opposed to how the bazaar worked in EQ. (And again, we're talking about it being likely it was some of the same people that worked on EQ that thought this.)

    It is not reasonable or logical to suggest that if a player wants to have a buyer or seller up 24/7, you have to have a completely separate paid account to do so. Being able to buy and sell in the bazaar is an important feature of the game, but it is hardly worth a whole subscription price to only do that with an account, and never adventure, do tradeskills, or anything else.
    Duder and Allayna like this.
  13. Allayna Augur

    Ugh. What a piss poor attitude towards suggested improvements. Might as well have a book covering your whole screen to meditate, or no out of combat regen for that matter. Better find a druid/Wizard to get around. Extended target window, naw bro, that’s too hard and too much work. Instances for zones, that’s just not the way it is, better get that from some other game. Maps, better get that outta here. Find path, we don’t need that in EQ, that wasn’t in original EQ and so it’s just not the way it is.

    Asinine post.

    Track was recently improved to include Z axis. The find item feature. Output file commands. Links for spells to see what they do. Invite through clicking on the name. Guild banners and campfires recently saw some lovin’... the list goes on and on for things that are quality of life improvements that didn’t exist previously. And you absolutely can set a portable container to auto combine while you’re waiting for that next mob to hit camp. o_O
    Balthozzar and Duder like this.
  14. KermittheFroglok Augur

    I disagree because there are plenty of people that have dedicated accounts for traders. Many people keep their traders subbed with Krono from what they sell or trade. I don’t see the issue with having to pay to play one account and pay to trade on another account, even pre-bazaar people had to do this in the commonlands. The way the game has always worked is you’re limited to having *one character* in the game world per account, a trader is a character. Trading is a premium feature, you pay for premium features.

    I don’t really think extra 24/7 trader access is a feature everyone (or even AllAccess) members should get. If you need 24/7 trader access you probably already trade enough to afford it with Krono or subsidize the account with Krono. If you don’t, you’re probably more casual a trader/player than you realize. Not having 24/7 trader access isn’t game breaking because a dedicated trader is a convience. Convience purchases help fund this game, being able to have a trader up more frequently was what pushed me over toward buying a third lifetime membership.

    I just don’t think I’ve seen a real strong arguement as to why players should be able to have more trader access, aside from the typical “I want more free stuff”.
  15. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    Yeah its asinine to think they can do whatever players want I guess. Some player requests just are not going to be done. Whether it is because that is just how the game is or whether it is too hard to do.

    And my answer wasn't any more asinine then what I responded to. Just because another game has a feature is no reason to expect it should be in this game.

    DBG can have business reasons, technicaly reasons or simply design reasons not to do things that are done in other games even their own games. We don't have the awesome ability to create outfits that DCUO has. We can't run around in tanks like Planetside can. We can't do consignment trading like EQ2 can.

    You can ask for those feature sure. But the excuse that we SHOULD get them because they are in another game by the same company is not valid in my opinion.

    You need to spend more time looking at things from multiple perspectives before you call something asinine. At least that is my opinion. You are welcome to have yours. And perhaps read the whole post not just the part you want to jump on :)
  16. Balthozzar Elder

    And yet you said this in another thread you created:
    So, which of these applies here? Is making the bazaar function differently (and I'd say better) something that they shouldn't do because it is "just how the game is" or is it something that is in their interest to change to "try and satisfy as many players as possible"?

    It is a reason to expect that they consider adding that feature, though. Gaming is a competitive industry. Each game competes for players. If players aren't satisfied, they play something else. If a different game has a feature that some players really want in a game, then they might decide to play that one instead of EQ.

    The two examples you give here are not relevant. Those features exist in those games because of the genre of game they are. A superhero game better allow players a very large amount of freedom to customize outfits. EQ has enough variation in appearance options to keep people from getting bored, but it doesn't need to be as elaborate as in DCUO (remember that there was no ability to customize your character's outfit for a long time in EQ. Gear always mattered, so people rarely wore something for the 'look' over the stats). And of course we don't get vehicles of any kind in EQ, that would be silly. We do have mounts, though, don't we? (Added with Luclin, like the bazaar, and how many aspects of how mounts work have changed since then?)

    You seemed to have two different perspectives on player-suggested improvements to the game yourself, so I think you have it covered for us.

    You also make no argument at all for why it shouldn't be a feature of EQ. Of course it would depend on business concerns like programmer time that they might feel is better used elsewhere. But why would it be anything but an improvement to the game?
    Allayna likes this.
  17. northstar Augur

    Well, for me I don't think that all paywalls should be universally answered with subscribe to unlock them. personally I enjoy unlocking specific features in a game and play at my leisure. the whole play for free they way you like and pay for the things you want isn't really in this games vocabulary... maybe I would like a J1 mercenary for 1000DBC on a character in other words this game lacks in being able to Customize to my play style and wallet... some people don't have an endless budget.

    in regards to the fact a second subscription is NEEDED to plant a trader in a market bazaar online or offline is pretty ridiculous. because really how many of you show of hands please, sit in the Bazaar and wait for people to buy your stuff with one account??
  18. smash Augur

    This is no improvement to the game, you just want it for free.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  19. KermittheFroglok Augur

    I use to wait with one account and decided it was worth paying for the *convenience* of being able to play and trade at the same time. You're statement is inaccurate or exaggerated. You need a second sub to have trader and play concurrently. You're implying most people play EQ nonstop and won't be able to trade when they're not actively playing, which is far from true. There are also different time zones and people playing when you're not on, so trading 24/7 isn't necessary to sell items.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  20. Diptera Augur


    ^ this. If I see a player undercutting the baz prices by a trifling amount, they get classed as "a complete *halfling*", and don't get my business.