Players input is often detrimental to the health of a game.

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Strawberry, Jan 29, 2020.

  1. Axxius Augur

    NO. Just NO. SoD with its Hard (limit 36) versions of raids nearly killed our guild, and probably a few others. A 'version' is not really optional. Raiding guilds are compelled to do it. And bench a lot of people from the regular raid. Who then get frustrated and quit. Please, devs, never do that again.
  2. yepmetoo Augur

    Hey, can already do these raids with 30, I wouldn't mind! Just split raid!
  3. Axxius Augur

    Sure. Transfer off the most populated server and join us, we'll do it together ;)
  4. Ravanta Suffer Augur

    I'm willing to bet that from Axxius's point of view. is that fielding a raid that could beat 36 was not the issue...fielding 2 raids that could, was. As a result, a large portion of their roster felt left out. I'm just guessing here, I wasn't playing during that era, but if I understand his meaning, I certainly agree with his opinion.

    All I know is, if guilds that beat t1 start complaining about not being able to beat t2 and t3 use the argument that they beat t1, they should be able to beat t2, and t3...and DP caves into the pressue of tuning the raids so they can....it's going to be a very boring season.
    Axxius, -----Cinexa----- and Sancus like this.
  5. Laronk Augur

    In the SOD versions of the raids where there was the 54 man raid and the 36 man raid there was a problem of having to bench a bunch of players but there was also other problems.

    In SOD there was a lot of raid fatigue, the 36 man raid wasn't different other than the restriction of 36 people and there was nothing stopping people from doing the 54 man version with 36 people.

    Having a "hard" raid where its just less people isn't so much hard, if you want raids more accessible to guilds that are having trouble fielding 54 people TOV might actually be the expansion for you where Tier 1 at the very least isn't hard, and I think you should be able to complete the events with less than 54 people or maybe even add a few boxes.
  6. Tutankamen Augur

    Wow- this is not even the issue- just put a lockout on both raids if you do the 36/ lockout the 54 and vice versa, if you are so worried about having to do it 2x. Hence- no issues with benching. This is just an example of people not wanting smaller guilds to be able to raid, despite suffering dwindling numbers of players caused by that exact issue.
  7. Sheex Augur

    Your previous guild might disagree on the harmful comment, sir.

    Regarding Mearatas specifically, we mid tier casual scrubs treated it kind of like The Triunity...by the time we got to there, it just didn’t seem worth the effort of bashing our heads against the wall for 8% more loot every week.

    In general I agree that the game needs a “hard” raid or two, and that they should preferably be the last couple of each expansion. The sharp drop in # of guilds winning things in TBL overall does not seem good for the game at this stage in its lifespan.
    Yinla likes this.
  8. Axxius Augur

    If they have the same exact reward then it's not fair (not to mention, why would anybody want to do the one with 54 people?). Hence the 36-player version should have better rewards. Hence the guilds will be compelled to choose it over the 54-player version. And back we go to the SoD Hard Tower problem.
  9. Yinla Augur

    Why should it have better loot if it is a watered down version of the 54 man raid? Surely it should have less not more?

    SoD hard raids were the same raid just limited to less persons wasn't it?
  10. Bamboompow Augur

    "Hard" really needs to be more dependent on random "Oh S***" factor. As in you can't farm it continuously with the same stale strat or just burning it all down. Sometimes you need to just get lucky as well as think on the fly. The best gear should be locked up behind these types of events, but with enough random events with beneficial outcomes where it is still worth it for players that are not elite to attempt.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.
  11. Arkanny New Member

    I would think that lesson had been learned by devs all the way back in LDoN. =/
  12. Vivaci New Member

    Who needs 40 man raids in ToV when you can split the new raid content with 27 people. Or even better, guilds with 25 real people and 29 macro bots clearing T1 with no problem at all. Kudos to the folks who made these raids possible for anyone to farm, even bots.
  13. Tappin Augur

    Not worth the effort - people tend to pick the same thing, so one raid size will be popular and the others will not be utilized. You’ll end up opening a can worms if they choose a non standard size.
  14. Whulfgar Augur

    If there is a hard version.. the reward should reflect that..

    Likewise.. if there is an easy mode.. the loot should also reflect that as well..

    Harder should have mlre h/m/e.. higher focus.. yadda yadda yadda..
  15. That0neguy Augur

    Really? So I guess the 72 man raids we started with didn't happen? Nor the 42 man, or 36 man raids they have used in various xpacs like ldon and don?

    The argument to keep something the way it is just because its "always" been that way is never a good argument.
    Elyssanda likes this.
  16. That0neguy Augur

    What original game are you thinking of? The one that launched with literally 0 raid content?
  17. Smokezz Augur

    Hate, Fear, Naggy, Vox. Kunark had more. Velious had even more... Luclin had a huge amount. Hmmm?
  18. yepmetoo Augur

    What 72 player raids?

    You do know that the raid tool didn't exist for several years, right?

    "72" was the amount of flags that you could get from most PoP events. Before that, there were no hard or soft limits. The dz first existed in LDon which had much lower limits, and was back coded into Plane of Time.

    That was the ONLY time there was anything related to 72 other than the fact that the raid tool was never changed to limit it to 54, because there was no reason to. 54 was the number from GoD onward, officially, barring a few smaller events.
    Axem the Great and Smokezz like this.
  19. Axem the Great Journeyman


    Those were the days. Beating Rallos for the first time with 103 people and then trying to figure out and keep track of which 72 people were hailing before the Planar Projection poofed.......good times!
    Vexana_Lanys and Goburs like this.
  20. Maedhros Augur

    Please go play some other game.
    This is the easiest raiding since I don't remember when. Probably ever.
    It is no-one but your guild's leaderships fault if you cannot fill 54 person raids.
    When you are successful in your efforts, recruiting is easy.
    When you struggle to beat content that matters to your members, recruiting becomes difficult and retention of players starts to fall apart. That is 100% the guilds fault. My guild streams in beta while we are learning events and I do not censor anything. You can hear what changes we implement between attempts and why, and maybe learn something about the process. We stream new content when the expansion launches from day one. Many other guilds have followed suit. There is so much free strategy available now, combined with the absurdly easy T1 raids... I really do not have any sympathy for the "we can't beat it" crowd.

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