Plane of Sky revamped bosses

This is how it always was tuned.

The hardest hitting mobs in the original Plane of Sky hit for 850, and multiple others hit for 750.

The hardest hitting mobs in Kunark, aka the dragons in Veeshan's Peak, I believe had max hits of ~800.

Sky was always tuned to be on par with high end Kunark. Very few guilds made it past the first couple of islands in PoSky before Kunark was released.

noone made it past bee island pre kunark.

however, there was plenty of time on these servers before the revamp that its kind of completely unfair. sky bosses are still overkill, and have always been classic targets on progression server.

Queen Bee, Hand of Veeshan, and Overseer cannot currently be killed without pet walls unless you have like 200 people, 30 clerics, and awesome luck. They hit much harder than Fenin Ro in PoP. They're untankable.

Yep. The damage increase should be 2x, rather than the current 3x. That solves the problem, as all mobs become tankable. Pet walls still work, but will be less efficient, as a raid's dps will be much, much lower with all of it coming exclusively from pets.

BTW, Queen Bee has been killed without pet walling. As far as I know, only Overseer and Hand have not, and Hand is technically tankable with a high health tank + full buffs + a 1 second CH rotation + a 1 second rune rotation...though Overseer definitely is not.

Who has killed Bee with tank/cleric setup, TL?

I believe so. Also, I think both AD and Faceless have tried, and gotten far enough that it is obviously possible (tanked to sub 50%).

Based on her original damage being 750 per hit, she should hit for 2250 max. I have logs on my other computer, but I am not near it, so I cannot verify that. She only doubles, so that is a possible 4500 per round + 100 if her AOE goes off at the same time...so 4600.

A well geared tank, with full buffs, can get close to that much health, though I do not believe they can actually reach 4600. HOWEVER, with a decent rune chain being used, to absorb a portion of that damage, then a sufficiently geared tank could tank her from start to finish, even if she hit for max damage every round. They only need others to taunt off right before death touches.

In practice, with high AC, plus factoring in avoidance skills, it is unlikely that she will land a perfect round. A HP stacked tank would have a good chance of surviving from start to finish even without a rune chain. They would only need a dedicated shaman ready to abolish disease after each AOE.

She hasn't hit me with a true max yet, however, the issue is, at this stage in the game. AC and HP are harder to come by. I'm not entirely sure you can get to 3.2k? Hp which is around the area to get to 4600 hp buffed. I think i just barely break 4k using a shield currently( http://eq.magelo.com/profile/3429569). I can still be 1 rounded(She doubles), even if she doesn't hit me for max on either of her hits. Honestly, hitting for 1700 or 1800 would be much better option at this point if they want to buff the mobs, but as it stands(While it can be done), it isn't efficient to kill these without a ton of pets. Also, the fact they're so Magic resistant, while having DT mechanic, and 100+K hitpoints means that killing these mobs before healers go OOM is a true test.

Have you guys actually killed Bee with purely a tank/CH rotation setup and not pet walls?

I'm not sure PoSky needed to be buffed much if at all. Island 6+ were already quite difficult and not beatable by most guilds pre-buff. Also it's really weird that Daybreak decided that since mages were overpowered the solution to deal with that was to make mobs so powerful that only mages can beat them.

Devs have already said Kunark bosses have been buffed as well so many people are quite worried how that's going to turn out. Hopefully they will be buffed more reasonably and can be beat without having to having 20+ mages chain summon pets.

Also I really hope they stop the boss buffing at Kunark. Raid mobs from Scars of Velious and beyond had more than 32khp and were significantly tougher than their counterparts in classic and Kunark. It shouldn't be necessary to buff mobs beyond Kunark to provide a sufficient challenge to most guilds that are doing them.

I'm really busy in my real life these days, so i've only been on for the First attempt and the First kill. First attempt, we got to 35%? Using a traditional CH/Tank setup, but things got wonky. I'm not sure if we have or not, but that just goes back to the original point. These mobs are overpowered, by far. There is a number of things that can be done without even lowering their dps output that could change that.

A. Reduce their resistance to spells
B. Take off the 40% melee mitigation bonus.
C. Get rid of Boss Bee's DoT.
D. Decrease her hitpoints to buffed Nagafen instead.
E. Remove the DT component.

Her melee dps is crazy high, but its still possible, but with all of the other factors in place, its basically pointless to try a traditional tank/ch setup.

+1, any time you get whole classes unable to meaningfully contribute there is a problem with the mob.

Oh I agree, i was just curious since Asheran claimed she has been killed without pet walls, and I'm unaware of anyone who has legitimately done that. We got her around 35-40% too with Tank/CH setup the first try, and I think like 11% the second, but I'm not sure that was 100% Tank/CH.

Like you said, it's technically possible probably but it's so frustrating and inefficient why bother when people can kill her with 30-40 mages. Just proves how broken these Sky mobs are.

As a comparison, here's the current DI and DPS (for PAL only) of Lord Nagafen vs WAR, PAL, SHD, and WIZ:









Note the WAR takes a considerably nicer DI spread than PAL/SHD, and WIZ is amusing (they take aggro easily, hence PAL/SHD tanking most of the time).

PAL damage over time:



Recall the incoming DPS from The Hand of Veeshan was 923 - about 3 times as much as post-buff Lord Nagafen.

Here's a pre/post buff comparison of most raid bosses in classic:

Some raid bosses were more difficult than post-buffed Naggy/Vox - especially the later bosses of Plane of Sky. These bosses were already very challenging, and did not need to be buffed. Now that they've been buffed to 3 times the damage, they're unreasonably difficult to kill.

The following paladin is very well geared -

[Sun Aug 02 19:52:28 2015] Cazic-Thule slashes PAL for 1275 points of damage.

[Sun Aug 02 19:52:29 2015] Cazic-Thule slashes PAL for 1275 points of damage.

[Sun Aug 02 19:52:31 2015] Cazic-Thule slashes PAL for 1140 points of damage.

PAL max out at around 3.5k HP - so this is a death in 3 seconds; too fast for anyone in classic to heal.

Anything hitting over 1k in classic is a bit ridiculous - over 2k is absurd. Remember, our best healing spells right now are Complete Healing, Superior Healing, and Greater Healing. Please don't make classic EQ raiding as hard as it is on live servers, with only a fraction of the ability to defend ourselves.

Thanks for taking the time to make the graphs. It's interesting looking at the differences of the raid mobs! We can only hope that mobs will be individually looked at and not some generic buff. As I mentioned before, I don't want to see epic mobs in Kunark hitting as hard as Tunat in Tacvi.

Just curious, what is the displayed AC and raw ac on those 4 toons?

DBG has absolutely no idea what they are doing. They should be embarrassed. These buffs are completely over the top and nonsensical. I just hope they don't ruin future expansions.

We've tanked her to sub 40%, not sure exactly where it stops because things get messy at the end. I believe the issue was more healers running out of mana than anything else.

If we're talking purely conceptually I think you could tank even Overseer but you'd need a really massive force.

CH Rotation
Rune Rotation (Two dif Runes stack atm I think)
A series of Warriors using /shield to reduce the spikes

You'd need a ton of clerics/enchanters to not go oom during the fight.

I know in classic there isn't much strategizing to be had for the raids, but Protocol has a good start there, at least with the use of Runes.

Playing a warrior for close on 15 years there have been quite a few events that could one round me easily, so this wouldn't be the first one. As a warrior there are a few tricks you can do to lessen the chances of getting one rounded, you also have to accept the fact that you will die in raids more often than any other class.

The biggest issues I would guess in classic are what protocol mentioned, healers running OOM.

*Also using Fennin ro there as an example is kinda funny... as he was such a pushover in terms of DPS output... that fight isn't about tanking/surviving. It's just about positioning, getting the right buff, and range dps.

As someone that has also played a warrior for 15+ years, i can assure you, this is like nothing before. May be past when you played, but Mephit's in Lichen Creep come to mind, when they triple you for 24k a hit when you're topped at 50ish k hit points. It is broken, we don't have any of those "tricks" because its classic. No Defensive or Evasive, no Fortitude, etc.

If we had Defensive or Evasive, it wouldn't be that big of an issue, aside from the DT, meaning switches. The other issue with cleric mana is, classic dps was never meant for 120k hit point mobs. With the mitigation bonus and the magic resistance, our dps is hamstrung to a really low number, with a mob that has 4x as many hitpoints as anything in classic.

Imagine doing Mayong without any banes, thats how it feels =/