Plane of Growth trash dropping Vulak Loot needs to be fixed ASAP

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by JohnnyBgood, Aug 18, 2021.

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  1. Elite_raider Augur

    If this argument was correct, the server would be DOA, but yet it is not, try asking your self why....
  2. Elite_raider Augur

    1) The big impersonal Zerg guilds: We have all seen the streams, in the first week of an expansion they walk in to every raid and the named falls over with minimal effort or risk, usually with no one ever dyeing or going below 80% mana/70% HP. There is absolutely not risk or skill involved.

    2) The smaller family and close friends style guilds: They push the envelope of what they can do to challenge them self's and to have fun, they wipe countless times on mobs, but keep at it honing their skill, some times they increase their skill and get past the difficult mob they are on and some times they get uber loot to help them progress on Mischief, the randomness and never knowing is what makes it fun!

    Group 1 wants the best loot to only be available to them, because they know that if it is also available to to people in group 2 that also provides a nice and selfless experience were you get to build relationships and really enjoy the game, their members will leave the big zerge guilds, because there is no "benefit" any more for tolerating the bad behavior of many (not all) of the people who generally create and lead these types of guilds. They can see the writhing on the wall, and that is why they are trying to shift the power balance back in to their favor, because given the choice most people would rather be in a smaller guild were it is easier to build relations and make connections with the other members if they still have the chance of the same loot.
    Kahna likes this.
  3. Elite_raider Augur

    The way they did loot in the first 3 expansions for raid content:

    1) All mobs they believed had MoTM got put in 1 bucket.

    2) Quest mobs like PoSky or Epic mobs was handled separately, most notably in Kunrak epic mobs were all put in one bucket.

    With Velious some mobs with no loot got put in the bucket, mistakes happen, we are all human, they need to fix that, but that is it.

    It is the one big bucket for all MoTM mobs that has made this server such a huge success, changing that now and going to a tired system, will kill the incentive for playing on this server for the majority of the casual crowed/the paying customers of the server.
  4. verbatim Lorekeeper

    I would totally support that kind of compromise if it were to happen. Thanks for your framing of the discourse and trying to have a positive impact on it.
  5. Daidraco New Member

    There are plenty of low man crews on both servers that kill the top end targets. This content isnt difficult and treating AoW etc. like its out of anyones reach because they dont field 72 people is nonsense. Low man crews being 24-36 people, not just you and your lvl 42 buddy for example. For more justification in low man favor, a lot of your bigger guilds have an abundance of "boxes" in tow. How effective do you think they are at playing 2,3,4+ boxes at a time? Also, you're actually better off in a low man crew pushing yourself because you only have a third of the people a big guild has, gearing you out quicker. DZ's are even there to give you the opportunity to push yourself to do these fights at your own pace.

    Completely random loot may "sound" nice, but it's only ever nice when it works in your favor. Imagine killing all of NToV and getting mostly CT 1.0 loot like the "Big Guilds" did. That wasnt very fun, and people didnt want to play the game at all in that situation. Imagine bringing together all your friends for the one night you had to play to kill AoW. You wipe a lot but you finally beat him and whats your reward? Two Gems and a Spell. That's not fun and you cant look at yourself in the mirror and say it is. If these are possible outcomes, how excited are you going to be the following week to kill him again?

    Im not trying to be the bad guy, or a scion of realization - but having tiers keeps the game rewarding. Tiers inspire you to push yourself and your friends in the game to do bigger and better things. Complete randomization would only be frustrating in the long run for the players at the top and the bottom of proficiency. At least with tiers of randomization, 1. you know which mobs may drop that BIS for you and 2. know that you have a high chance of that item dropping from multiple targets.

    What you should really be upset about is that pre-awakened Sleepers Tomb loot wasnt included in loot randomization. Which is really an affront to the entire spirit of the server. Forget about Krono Lords and all that insignificant banter. 22 Years later on a server with 4x's the loot dropping and you're still only going to see one or two people on the entire server with one of those items. Hearing "Its just not possible because of how it works" shouldnt be an acceptable answer. Hearing "Its just two months" shouldnt be an acceptable answer. As we go through the expansions, this wont be the last time we hear those answers and the fact its starting so early in the server's life is disheartening at best.
    Gnothappening and verbatim like this.
  6. Triconix Augur

    I think the most amazing phenomenon in this thread is somehow tiers of raids was reversed. First time in EQ's history that T1 is used to describe the highest tier.
    While this has merit, I think all you're doing is minimizing the amount of bad loot that drops to the lowest it can possibly be in order to fulfill people's selfish interest, which is acquiring good loot.

    By doing your system, you would effectively ensure that the lowest tier raid mob loot has the least chance of dropping in the game. If you want randomization, you need to accept the good outcomes and bad. You can't start indirectly sweeping bad outcomes under the carpet because "that's no fun." It would be proof that people don't give a s*** about randomization. They only care about good loot.
  7. HekkHekkHekk Augur

    I think we should all just enjoy the mischief.
  8. Tweakfour17 Augur

    Definitely passive aggressive, even now with you trying to paint me as playing victim because my arguments were falsified. Which arguments exactly? That MOTM was not the only factor in the buckets? How was that proven false?
    Just because you're an elite raider doesn't mean there are no guilds who have wiped on this content. It happens.
  9. Tweakfour17 Augur

    Except that's not true. There were MOTM mobs who were in different buckets. There were MOTM mobs that were in no buckets. There were mobs w/o MOTM who were in raid loot buckets (did the devs think they had MOTM? PoG minis they did, Fear golems? Maybe?) Do these Velious mobs that drop no loot have MOTM? If so shouldn't they be included? Sometimes you get skunked (ie: on a normal server if you killed those mobs).
  10. Tredus New Member


    Yeah my proposal is not perfect there is no perfect solution honestly. All this solution tried to do was try to find a decent middle ground so that most people involved could get what they were looking for. The ideology and interpretation of the entire server ruleset has been so polarizing and I think if we moved in this direction then hopefully we can keep a thriving population for many expansions to come because ultimately that is what our goal is. We can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good and acceptable. Essentially you are saying that its not about randomization because it doesnt fit into your viewpoint of randomization is or should be based upon your interpretation of what the devs intended when they listed the rules of the server.
    • The Mischief server is a new experimental server that randomizes loot.
    • Rare NPCs will drop loot from other NPCs of a similar level within the same expansion.
    • Raids will drop loot from other raid NPCs of a similar level within the same expansion.
    • We may add other special case randomization.
    What does "level" mean?
    Is it actual Level of the Raid Encounter?
    Is it level of difficulty?
    What does Similar mean?
    Is it the same Level of mob? Same level of difficulty?
    Is there a range of levels? Is there a range of difficulty?

    The point is that is is very vague and anyone who expostulates that they know exactly what the devs intended when they made this statements are honestly just stating what "their" interpretation of this statement was.

    The most important thing here is that we all have different opinions about what we feel the randomness should be based upon our own experiences, investment, and playtime. I dont think your opinion is wrong or bad in any way because it fits with your ideology of the ruleset. I think everyones opinion is valid. I think the problem we run in to again and again here is that people refuse to even bend a little bit to try to make everyone satisfied because it doesnt give them exactly what they view as the "spirit" of the ruleset. The reality is there is no perfect solution and instead of trying to turn the server into exactly what each persons viewpoint is(which is impossible) lets just try to find some common ground where a majority of players can at least be happy with the ruleset and moving forward.
    Kazzuk, Stymie, Venalin and 1 other person like this.
  11. Hythos Augur

    Couldn't the most amazing thing be, that there has yet to be any strong argument in favor of supporting tiered loot (short of name-calling).

    The only ones provided have been "because that's how it is on other servers", "without tiers, there's no reason to do higher level", or "because progression".

    The strongest being, Progression.
    Progression through an end-boss of an expansion isn't of everyone's interests. If it means to others, acquiring higher 'tier' of loot off of a lower level mob, great!
    I still have never fought Trakanon, yet alone Cazic or Inny. I've onlt ever been a part of a successful Vox raid one time.

    People do find those things difficult, and a waste of time. Without proper coordination, pick up raids are far less likely to be successful, obviously.

    Does this mean these people are worthy of being called names, or are looking for handouts? You people are going to call them names anyway because it's the internet.
  12. Tweakfour17 Augur

    Well said.
  13. Triconix Augur

    This has been my point to the entire time, but select people were trying to ostracize anything that went against the opinion of "but the server was sold as global random loot."

    This server was never announced and advertised as global random loot. Not once. Anyone who thinks it was simply interpreted it as such. What was sold was "raid mobs of similar level would share loot." To me that doesn't sound global, but I guess for some people it somehow does?

    When did I call anyone names? I have yet to argue in this thread of what mobs should or should not drop.

    However, I ask this. If progression through all raids isn't of a concern for many people, why should progressing through all the best gear be of their concern? Those two concepts go hand in hand in terms of Everquest design. This is just me playing devil's advocate.

    If people want BIS dropping from lower tier mobs, so be it, but let's not pretend that's how it was advertised. If maybe there are enough people who do want globalized loot devs will implement a global randomization server in the future for people to enjoy.
    Gnothappening and Tweakfour17 like this.
  14. Indigo_Quarmite Elder

    The word level, while in the real world could mean various things, in the EQ MMO world (aka Norrath) it means character or mob level.

    If you ask 1000 players what it means when they level up - 99.99999999% of them would say they leveled up (your level goes from 1 to 2). Thus the word level means your level or the mob level. When you con a mob it tells you its LEVEL not their tier or difficulty range.

    EQ does not have tiers. This is not WoW. If you want tiers you are free to join the WoW TBC or classic era servers and have all the tiers you want.


    Next argument from the circus sideshow of freaks that want to reduce this server to not being randomized please. Indigo is here to debunk your fallacies.
  15. Tredus New Member

    @ Indigo

    I appreciate you adding in your opinion of what the ruleset is, yet again though, that is your opinion. I think if you read my proposal you will see that I am not arguing for either side I am trying to find some common ground for us to come together. I never discounted anyones viewpoint or opinion as I feel they all have merit and deserve to be heard. I dont know how you could take from either of my posts how I am a "circus sideshow freak that want to reduce this server to not being randomized" but it does not appear as though you are even interested in listening to anyone elses opinion on the matter.

    In all things if you are only satisfied with getting exactly what you want your life will be one long string of dissapointments.
  16. Indigo_Quarmite Elder

    I'm not adding opinion im adding what is legal fact. It is random based on expansion and mob level (level is legally defined as the number associated with the mob). This is not debatable or opinion. It cannot be changed the server doesn't have an asterisk that says subject to change.

    What ngreth did is change the entire dynamic server to cater to 4 or 5 forum warriors. All I can do is fight for the everyman who plays this game or recently signed up for this server due to randomness of it all.
    Hythos likes this.
  17. Triconix Augur

    This is just blatantly untrue. If there were no tiers in EQ, devs wouldn't stagger releases of raids by TIERS for the last two expansions.

    Tweakfour17 likes this.
  18. Indigo_Quarmite Elder

    LOL last 2 expansions. This game died with OoW son. We are talking TLP here.
  19. Tredus New Member

    It is an opinion though because you can argue it all day long concerning what the "level" and "similar" mean because all of the context is not from the person who wrote the rule it is from your interpretation of said statement.

    Vulak is level 70.
    What is "similar"?
    What is a "raid" NPC?
    Is Rumbleroot mini in PoG a "raid" NPC at level 60?
    Is level 60 "similar" to 70?
    Is groupable content considered "raid" NPC?

    You speak as though you have this inate perfect knowledge about what that statement means however in reality all you have is your opinion and interpretation of what that statement means, and saying you know exactly what was meant and what the ruleset was intended to be based upon that statement is just disingenuous.
    Triconix and Tweakfour17 like this.
  20. Tweakfour17 Augur

    When you con a mob it tells you it's level, but it also can tell you it's difficulty range. "This creature would take an army to defeat!", I can't remember the exact wording but there are a couple of different messages you could see. Also the con message itself along with the color gives you a general idea "What would you like your tombstone to say?".
    Also EQ does have tiers, sorry that to you the game died at OoW but it didn't, it's still going on. Thats a real fact not the stuff you insist is "legal" fact just because your rigid definitions are the only possible definitions to you.
    Triconix likes this.
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