We attempted an "open" raid on PoF and ran into something we had never seen with guild only raiding. Folks zoned in, and died. We all then had 2 lockouts (Spiders and Fiends) and when we went to zone back in to CR got booted with a yellow text messege "because we had lockouts for the boss"................I think most /bugged it tonight.
lol.. it seems somehow the new patch repaired many items, except range/charm but bugged many tasks. I ask myself, how that game has been structured if something like that can happen. So little modularity in the development?...
We tried Hate tonight and the same thing happened. Whenever someone died they got the lockout message on rez and one person evaced to zone and got the message after evac.
Those two lockouts were obtained legitimately - we DID get a spider and a fiend dead - the issue was that having them kept getting people booted when they tried to Rez in or zone back in.
In that case, anybody who dies or zones between the 1st and the last kill of the same trash type is locked out of the Fear instance (or trash from the same area in Hate). That's a terrible design. When did this start happening? After this latest patch? Patch notes don't mention any changes to Fear/Hate lockouts.
The "fix" they sneaked in has broken it worse than before. now if you kill a mob in either plane you cannot raid the zone due to lock outs, also if you die after killing one mob for example you cannot log back in. Why make a "T2" group gear zone that you cant play in if your intending on raiding it. This expansions gets worse and worse the more they do.
Doubling down on the 'one-shot' philosophy of the zones. Now they're hardecore mode only! if you die, you get kicked! Certainly makes CT harder, thanks to his death touches.
Looks like it's more broken than just kicking out anybody who dies. People without any lockouts cannot zone in after the raid starts receiving lockouts. It just kicks out anybody with different lockouts than task leader, or something like that.
I just want to give a big round of applause out to the Rathe server for making this change possible How about we just make a logical system with trash and lockouts so that no one can exploit it but if guilds want to take 2 - 3 groups in before normal raid times to clear trash they aren't penalized for adding to the task an hour or so later? I usually try and get stuff somewhat precleared (and when you DO NOT AE the entire zone in 30 min this actually is an issue) so these crazy changes really make the zones undesirable. It's kindof ironic that in beta the response was 'well if you don't have a suggestion to fix the problems that can be done in an hour' has now turned into a stealth patch which required who knows how much thought and effort (guessing MOAR than an hour). Actually... I take that back. The broken state suggests that it was done in 5 minutes or less.
Unfortunately my memory isn't *that* good but I'm going to gather it made a WHOLE lot more sense and was a feasible solution compared to what we have now. Basically a select few who sploited (and again, did they even get a suspension?) led to a sweeping, untested, horrible change that 'ruined' the zones for everyone. Seems like a simple script to /flag anyone for suspension with a lockout >5 days on Maestro would have been sufficient till an actual fix could be implemented. /shrug
I also had a suggestion to tie trash lockouts to the miniboss of the appropriate trash, and reduce those trash lockouts to ~2.5 days. But the suggestion (abazz's?) to just make the trash lockouts 6 or 8 hours was better.
When we cleared fear last time, after killing cazic we started to get messages about people being kicked because they have the lockout on cazic. I think some even actually got kicked after we thought nothing of it and ignored the messages. Of course we have the lockout, you get one when you kill him.
We just tried hate, it is indeed totally messed up. You die, get rezzed, you get booted, can't get back in and stay in.
The idea behind the mechanic is this: If you zone in (triggered by zoning in, evacing from within, or being rezzed from hover mode or other), it checks your lockouts for mobs up. If a mob that you have a lockout for is up, you are booted. The problem is...that isn't even working. Had us kill a mini that shares lockouts only with itself and the behavior was happening then still. Look...I get the "need" for nostalgia or whatever...but the trash mobs in this group drop stuff even groupers don't want. Seriously getting augs with +1 heroics is something that you are requiring raids to clear? I'll give you a hint...back in the day when you had to clear planar trash...you got rewarded with top end gear. Not stuff below garbage. Let people pre-clear all they freaking want...the "you have to kill 100 mobs to unlock bosses" thing was poorly thought out to begin with. The trash has no reward, no real risk, and is just a time waster. I thought we moved past that... This current "solution" to force people to clear trash is just...dumb. If you really want to make people clear trash this wasn't even a good solution to begin with. If you want to do that make it so killing *all* mobs of a certain type creates the lockout, NOT killing *one* of them. Then remove the stupid 100 mob limit because if people are willing to pre clear entire planes freaking let them. Would be nice to not spend an hour+ clearing hate to do maestro, have servers crash, then have to do the clearing *again* just to get to do inny...which is made better by the fact you technically have to exploit lockouts to do it!
Heaven forbid they just make this a DZ like every other raid out there and solve the whole issue easily. I mean how many people really do hate to get gear when doing the other TBM tasks for gear is so much easier.
"Scaling content" was one of the few features actually delivered with the expansion launch... it would just be heresy to back out now and say it was a horrible idea, scrap it, and fix the zones for the actual target audience like Drakang said above.
