picking up a 3rd box, advice please

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Goranothos, Jan 11, 2017.

  1. Goranothos Augur

    Finally decided to add a 3rd box to the mage/shammy combo I have been playing for years. They are 105 all access and I will be adding a 3rd toon, level 85 heroic that I'll start off FTP, but will probably go all access with if I like it.

    After years of practice, I'm pretty good at 2 boxing, but may very well suck at 3 boxing. Because of this, the 3rd toon is definitely going to need to be low maintenance. That pretty much rules out any melee toon, which is fine. I don't really want a Bard either. Looking for something that has synergy with my current team, and adds utility. I'll probably be using one healer merc, and two wizzy mercs.

    I've narrowed it down to Nec, Druid, Wizzy, or Chanter. I've never played any of these past level 30 something, so suffice to say I don't know squat about playing any of them except what I learned grouping with them years ago.

    With the Druid and Wizzy, I get ports, but other than that, I'm not sure how much utility I would get from either one of those. How much would high level Druid buffs compliment my Shammy buffs?

    Nec....not sure what he would bring to the table besides another strong pet. I have a feeling his dots would not be that great in normal content because the mobs would get burned down too quick.

    Chanter seems like probably the best.....and also the most work to play. He would bring KEI (or whatever the modern version is) and (far more important) pulling and crowd control.

    Any thoughts?

    Edit: Oh, I suppose I should say what I plan to do with this group. I'll be heading to TBM and/or Kunark to do missions and hunt named for gear upgrades.
  2. moogs Augur

    Enchanter is where it's at. I box mine so I'm only meh, 40% as effective as a single account player, but it's not that difficult to learn and this will add the most utility to your current group. If you're already slowing with your shaman, your enchanter is freed up to do something else. That's a good thing.

    Enchanter has a decent pet (add mage summoned weapons, maybe craft some Dimensional Warrior armor) when it has all of the passive AAs. Charmed is obviously miles better but risky when boxing. Your group is missing proper pulling and crowd control. You can get by with the extra mage pet or shaman root but you'll get used to having a pocket enchanter ready to take care of business. Don't forget that the enchanter has runes to protect the whole group against melee damage, direct damage and damage over time. These are very helpful when fighting strong named mobs.

    Yeah, the druid ports are nice, but you have two guild hall portals for that. Also you can make a FTP account with a druid and wizard to teleport you wherever. Druid buffs are not that great. You already have regen from your shaman and damage shield from your mage. Flight of Falcons/Eagles is very nice. Skin and symbol vs aegolism is a personal preference.
    Xilbuster likes this.
  3. Reht Augur

    I would go with a chanter, even a boxed chanter played at 40% like moogs does (and i did) is still going to bring a lot to the table, especially if you get into trouble.
  4. NameAlreadyInUse Augur

    Of the choices you mentioned, I say wizzy. The more toons you box, the more you will appreciate transportation and their DPS will cut your mob kill times in half or better. Wizzies also are also very easy to multibind, so you can get 90+% of their max potential with just a few keys - a boxer's dream.

    I think both the enchanter and druid would overlap with your existing shammy's roles, and neither brings as much DPS as a wizzy. I think you would need to put most of your attention on your chanter if you want to see it's full potential. Mind candy is nice, but if you choose wizzy, you can pop back to pok or guild hall whenever you want to get buffs and then campfire right back to your fight.

    Necro DPS is a lot slower, so fights will be longer. Like enchanters, they also take more attention to play them well.
    Xilbuster likes this.
  5. Xilbuster New Member

    I know you didn't list it but me personally would add bard to that group. insanely good pulling/tracking + some buffs other things. wiz would be my second choice give you great dps. wouldn't do the druid/necro. Ive never done Enchanter before so no opinion on that.
    NameAlreadyInUse likes this.
  6. NameAlreadyInUse Augur

    @Moogs' point about pulling and CC is real. Your choice definitely may depend on your playstyle and your gear (the pet focus, primarily).

    I'd say you've picked one of the more challenging choices of toons to box, since you'll need to be micromanaging each of them. Despite that, if you want to do EoK t2 content, I think the enchanter may be the only choice. I'm not sure you'd be able to do those zones without a real tank or crowd control.
  7. moogs Augur

    I've shared my enchanter socials and spell lineups multiple times but wouldn't mind doing it again if you choose that. My boxed enchanter outputs more DPS than my druid main, so it's very easy and you don't need to use the pulling/cc tools that often if you don't want to. My wizard is level 3 so I can't comment on that option.
    Goranothos likes this.
  8. Tucoh Augur

    I box a war/mage/bard.

    Adding Nec, Druid, Wizzy, or Chanter to mage/shaman are all not great options.

    Of those, chanter will probably increase your group strength the most. Enchanters, berserkers and SKs are the current top level classes. I'd be worried about building a group around a caster class that happens to be able to rune-tank, only to find it getting (undeservedly) nerfed sometime in the future.

    Best option to mage/shaman would be an SK or warrior. Currently an war/SK, once geared (with group gear in EoK) will be able to do more DPS than your mage (or a necro) while tanking far better than your mage's earth pet. Warriors are more dependent on healers than SKs but require less attention to play than SKs who have to constantly cast to do their job. Overall SKs are better than warriors for group stuff.

    As for multi-boxing advice, best advice I can give as someone who has a mage they box (and pay minimal attention to) is to set up a multi-bind on your mage, and have a few social macros that assist, send pet, send swarm pet, hit all your DPS burns etc.

    I also wouldn't get too excited about ports from a wiz/dru. They're nice when running around old worlds where you've got tons of port locations, but there are so many PoK books around and players can run so fast. And in modern expansions you pretty much get one port that is likely to not be too different from where you can port via guild hall or other locations.
  9. Goranothos Augur

    Thanks to everyone for the great advice. I think I'm going to at least try the enchanter first and see how it goes. I do realize that a level 85 heroic toon of any class isn't going to be doing much of anything for my group until I get them leveled up.

    Yes, please. Like I said, I don't know squat about Enchanters, so a "dummies guide" would be appreciated.

    Specific things I would love to know would be:

    (1) How do I single pull mobs out of a group of three or more?
    (3) Oh, ****! Something went wrong and I have adds in camp! What do I do now?
    (4) What chanter buffs should I cast on the group?
    (5) What would be the chanters role on normal pulls where nothing goes wrong? Does he just sit there and pick his nose while the wizzy mercs and mage burns the mob down?

    Also, Re: the chanter pet...... Is it like a "normal" mage or shammy pet? Can the chanter control it, as in tell it to attack, regroup, etc?
  10. moogs Augur

    Ah, for all of those questions there are a couple of good YouTube channels.

    (Madame Mystique)
    (Dandin Mindfire)

    Each enchanter does things a little differently. What's great about them is that they are so versatile and there are many methods to accomplish what you've set out to do. It's up to you how you want to use your abilities. Understanding them is the first step. Wax on. Wax off.
  11. Millianna Augur

    I do not agree with a third caster. I would honestly pick a War (lowest maintenance tank) instead. That's my 2 cents
  12. IblisTheMage Augur

    I box mage/bard/enchanter, and always play with my buddy, who is a Shaman (more about this later). So for me it is simple: since you have narrowed it down to int casters, it should definitely be the Chanter.

    I have different "modes" i use for my chanter. One mode is of course nuking (which is not impressive), but another is chain-runing the pet, as well as the group. There is an aggro-enhancing rune, a single target rune, and a group rune, that is also a de-aggro, that I block on the pet. A trash mob in EoK or TBM will typically not bring my EM 16 (all passive AA) below 90% health, and (group)nameds are not hard anymore. The group rune means that if a toon grab aggro for some reason, the toon will not only typically not get damaged (a lot), but the rune in itself will lower aggro when the mob pounds on the toon, helping the pet regain aggro.

    I think that the part that your group will miss miss the most above is the CC. With a pet tank, you need good CC in tight quarters with many mobs, and those situations will be roadblocks for you in TBM and EoK. Also, it is actually great fun to taste a bit of the "Enchanter God Syndrome", but of course, I am at best only at 30% of the skill level of a "real" chanter. However, 30% will suffice, and it is great fun.

    Chanter pet is functional, because it can also proc Roar. It is all pets on deck (fully equipped and buffed for survivability) when you have a shaman.

    If you add a 4th someday, pick a bard. For a long time I just /melody-ed him, but now I spend the two seconds pr combat it takes to get him to melee, and I use [unmentionable but legal 3rd party software that rhymes on is-no-foxer] to make sure that he fires all his wonderful group enhancing abilities. With bard and enchanter, and by using non-spear-nukes (Force, Orb, Chaotic, Fickle, Many), I never run out of mana, while Theft of Essence is so good to the pets. The bard can proc a lot of swarm pets every two minutes (same key as mage's /pet attack and /pet swarm), so we often break 15+ pets on the mob, making of Many so very sweet. A good pet can, with all the stuff that is going on, get near and sometimes even break the 15k-ish DPS I am seeing from a wiz merc. The bard is typically bring 30 DPS, sometimes higher. It is of course expecially with Roar... The bards adps is a lot higher, and bards can sometimes tank a full two ticks before needing a rez... :-D.

    DPS is good, sufficient, but not stunning. Wiz mercs become less relevant as DPS grows, and sometimes we have two healer mercs, just to be sure :).

    Well, that was at least until a month ago. Now a third RL friend came back, he is leveling his druid with us (96), and the Shaman is boxing another mage (so that they can play when I am not online). Now, there is _really_ a lot of swarm pets on the mobs, Theft of Essence (and Rathe's Strength) are even more useful, and DPS is... well, growing ;-). We have no healer mercs anymore (6 toons, 3 players), so we die more... but it is all good fun!

    Playing without a tank is harder, so you have to compensate, but it gives another slot in the group for utility, and everybody brings a bit of DPS.

    Oh well, I will not tire you anymore. Conclusion is: Chanter.
    Goranothos likes this.
  13. Millianna Augur

    Also, chanter by no means an easy box. Mez takes time to cast and miss management of AAs just make things worse. What the chanter brings to the table is a single target caster adps from hell.
  14. Goranothos Augur

    Well, created the chanter and wen't ahead and went all access on her for at least a month so I could claim all those AAs. Went ahead and did the new J5 merc quest yesterday with my mage babysitting. Pretty easy. It was my first time doing that quest, as my other toons got their mercs doing the "old skool" quest.

    A few observations:

    Yea I suck at 3 boxing. Hopefully I'll get better with practice.

    I've always used two different computers (an old laptop and a nice gaming desktop) for 2 boxing and run in full screen mode. I'm still running the shammy on my old laptop, but I'm now running 2 EQ instances on the desktop (mage and chanter). I don't much like playing in windowed mode, but oh well. One thing I *hate* is alt tabbing back and forth between the mage and chanter. My monitor is a LED widescreen 27" 1080p, but I remembered I had an old 19" standard ratio LCD in the basement that could do 1280x1024, so I brought that up and am now running 2 monitors on the desktop with the mage on the big monitor and the chanter on the little one. That seems to work much better than alt tabbing.

    On the same subject, I've been thinking of buying a gaming laptop to replace my old obsolete one. If I do get one, is there a way to run an outboard monitor on a laptop and still use the laptop's native screen? In other words, can laptops be setup for dual monitors?

    One last question? Is there any third party software that makes boxing easier/more convenient? I'm not talking about "cheat" software.
    IblisTheMage and moogs like this.
  15. Tucoh Augur

    Yes, laptops can output to multiple monitors. If you're interested in three boxing I'd look for one that can specifically do a three monitor setup. I can't stand alt-tabbing while boxing, and recommend using a single PC/laptop instead of switching around.

    The third party software that is geared toward boxing is inner space, but it hasn't been officially approved by DBG.
  16. Reht Augur

    Actually they kind of officially did (they didn't add it to the game knowledge base) right after ragefire launched. Roshen stated it was acceptable to use as long as there was no unattended gameplay. Then they flagged the name of the software with [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] which pretty much killed any reference/citation people had saved. Just can't use it on true box code servers. Of course that doesn't mean they can't change their minds on a whim.
  17. moogs Augur

    I 3-box on one monitor. I don't use alt-tab. I click on the application tiles in the taskbar. I sometimes use that 3rd party software (which doesn't allow you to do anything against terms of service) but 95% of the time I don't bother with it.
  18. Tucoh Augur

    Got a link to that?
  19. CatsPaws Augur

    Agree this is the best way I found also. In addition I log in my boxes in a certain order each time so I can just click the second one or fourth one or whatever one I want to get to. But everyone has their own preference. I steer away from anything that might require extra maintenance or updates to sustain my EQ adventure:cool:
    DinkumThinku99 likes this.
  20. Reht Augur

    Edit: found them - Here are qoutes that someone had in their sig with links that used to work specifically for I.s.B.o.x.e.r. Sorry, it was Piestro who said the first two, not Roshen. Roshen just clarified it.

    2012.10.24: It is not in and of itself against our rules. 2013.10.04: Window management software and key replication (although not automation) are both allowed. 2015.05.27: The use of I.S.Boxer while *unattended* can result in actions being taken against your account [emphasis added].

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