Pet Peeve: Why don't enchanters have double invis?

Discussion in 'Casters' started by Fian, Jun 13, 2023.

  1. Fian Augur

    Currently, only bards have double invis, given during the ROS expansion. Traditionally, though, enchanters were the king of invis. We got invis at level 4, and invisibility to undead at 14. No other class could compete with enchanter when it came to invis. Bards didn't get invis till level 19, and not sure when they got IVU, but it was very late in the expansions.

    If that doesn't convince you (class design can change), consider that bards and enchanters play a similar role in groups. It would make sense that both would have similar abilities.
  2. Alnitak Augur

    Bards got double-inviso through the kinship with rogues (SoS) and not from enchanters. Enchanters are just wanna-be bards, not the other way around. (Just pulling enchanters' whiskers!)
  3. Fanra

    While I would love to have double invis for as many classes as possible, I get the feeling that Darkpaw would like to get rid of it entirely. I'm afraid for the day they announce it is nerfed as "we never intended it". Like the illusion through doors that was there for 15 years before being removed.
  4. Velisaris_MS Augur

    The "illusion through door" thing got "fixed" only because of TLP servers. Had they not been around, that trick would have stayed because there was no real motivation to "fix" it.

    I'm sure at some point when the devs see bard double invis as "too powerful" for TLP servers, that's when it will be nerfed.

    TLP servers ruin everything.
    Trolgar likes this.
  5. strongbus Augur

    agree with this. one of the reason I think that if they going have tlp servers the should be setup like test is not linked to live in anyway.
  6. code-zero Augur

    IIRC Bards got double invis about the time that the extra tick AA was made permanent and no longer applied to our AE Mez. Also when every other class got some form of Fade the double invis was a sort of compensation for those things

    That's just my recollection but that might be just me
  7. Tucoh Augur

    Being able to safely parachute in to name / quest snipe has been relaxing the last few expansions, but it's time to return to a game that danger and risk/reward at higher levels.
    Get players grouping.
  8. Velisaris_MS Augur

    100% agree. The TLP servers definitely need to be in their own little "universe", like Test and Beta. That way they can mod/cheat code/fix/whatever to their heart's content on those servers and it won't affect anyone having a kid's table during the holidays.
    Trolgar likes this.
  9. code-zero Augur

    As a Bard main what's my motivation for getting behind this?
  10. Tucoh Augur

    If you're a bard main first and an EQ player second, none.

    I'd recommend that you continue to enjoy having a unique position in the game using an ability that trivializes a huge part of EQ by enabling you to carelessly move through mobs without risk. I know I will!
    code-zero likes this.
  11. Alnitak Augur

    Yup, just like rogues do since forever. Or like a group with a mage and another caster with IVU do it all the time with a group CoTH option as a cherry on top.
    In my opinion, bards' double inviso is just a notch more convenient than casting Inviso+IVU from 2 different characters. It's a QoL thing for a bard, not a game-changer.
    Wulfhere and code-zero like this.
  12. code-zero Augur

    In the Before Times a wizard I usually group with would cast one of their group perfected spells, IVU or regular, while a druid or an SK would cast whatever the appropriate companion spell may have been. Having a bard who could double up there has been very convenient for my regular group but it's been a very long time since we couldn't double up when required.

    I don't see any sort of real positive to nerfing what is now a unique class ability
    Mahlhavoc likes this.
  13. Tucoh Augur

    Content skips are great. The last few years has just been an aberration in not having any areas you can't zoom through with double invis. Bard's double invis is really a smaller part of a large problem dominated by trivialized zone design.

    Here's my favorite content skip I've recorded.

  14. Mookus Augur

    My wiz can double invis a group all by myself right now. I just can’t be included myself. I can only pick one or the other for myself afterward.

    And yeah the annoying trick where two people can double all 6 groupm members is a nice option.

    So imo, this is more of a QOL thing to add to encs, rather than a shift in class balance.
    Trolgar likes this.
  15. Wulfhere Augur

    This has never been true. Since EQ's inception there have been classes that can skip content, i.e. disastrously ignore the zone content getting from point A to point B. Those classes have been defined by their powers of: feign death, sneak, invisibility, mem blur, pacify, alliance, charm, levitation and teleportation.

    The fact that a bard finally has something close to a rogue stealth (not SoS) is arch-typical and that it's group friendly is simply QoL.
    Trolgar likes this.
  16. Fian Augur

    When they revamped mobs, they changed the nature of shades in TOL expansion. Before, everything didn't see through reg invis, after the change double invis was needed. It made going through certain zones, like Ka Vethan and Shadow Valley much more difficult. invis/double invis allows you to travel through content that you aren't interested in order to get to the camp that you are interested.

    If devs want to make certain dungeons harder to explore (Dungeon Necropolis comes to mind), just place see invis mobs. EOK expansion had those chokidai creatures that added a nice challenge. But don't put see invis mobs that prevent players from getting to the zone they want to travel.
    Tucoh likes this.
  17. sauron3030 Elder

    Necros get ivu at level 1 and regular invis at level 7.
  18. Keise Elder

    LOL enchanters are the pure class, bards are a heinz 57 class that started out like 14 levels behind on spells/abilities, and a tough class to play...back in the early 2000's but that all changed with /melody and devs started playing the class and gave them easy mode on everything...there is nothing pure about a bards other than fade
  19. EU Player New Member

    I find Bards are OP these days.
    I'm playing a bit on a tlp and usually a bard gets picked over an enchanter any day of the week. And with potions, as well as bard song / melody? People may want the buffs, but then the enchanter can leave.
    I find that kinda heartbreaking, and a few of my friends quit due to feeling like buff bots again which was why they quit in the first place.
  20. Verily Tjark Augur

    Double invis is for the weak... we don't need these things.