Pet Mitigation: Parses and Discussion

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Daegun, Apr 18, 2014.

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  1. fransisco Augur

    So, this is a return to the holy trinity - no one but wars, pal, sk can tank stuff.
    It should logically be followed by the absolute removal of all dps disciplines of tanks, and all solo abilities of knights.
    After all, its not their job to do damage. Plus, why should a class like SKs be able to kill something on his own when every other class needs him to kill stuff.
  2. Repthor Augur

    if u have a problem with knights then adress that somewhere els , this tread is about warrior mitigation and pets mitigation. warriros dont solo, we dont swarm, our dps is terrible. so i guess we forfill all your criteria to be able to mitigate the best, to bad we dont do that
    Elricvonclief and Leerah like this.
  3. fransisco Augur

    This isn't warrior mitigation, this is tank mitigation.
    And you're talking about completely realigning what mages can do. It only makes sense that the same ideas are applied to all tanks as well.
  4. Igniz Augur

    This is a road, we dont want to go down again - a happy nerf-everything merry-go-round is not gonna help anyone ...
  5. Repthor Augur

    its defenetly about warrior mitigation sir. incase u dident know knight (paladins and shadownights ) alreaddy mitigate worse then warriors, they make up for it in other areas, granted u can prehaps make a case for how thats done, but thats not what this tread is doing. its looking to compare raw mitigation between warriors whos sole role wile tankeing his main ability to survive id to focus sole on mitigation. not healing not runeing himself but but mitigating attacks to smooth inc dmg down to as smooth curve as possible for their healer. and currently pets who are a bi product off their masters are out preforming warriors in this area
  6. Engineer Augur

    In practice, according to parses in this thread, monks mitigate as well as rangers and avoid as well as (or better than?) knights.
  7. Delbaeth Elder

    We just saw how truly dominant mitigation which makes DI20 hits rare is more important than avoidance because it not only reduces DPS but also reduces variability. Monks and rangers don't live at that end of the curve and it is misleading to make such a large extrapolation. They tend to be in the range where DI20 hits are as frequent as DI1 hits, at least for named. In that range a little extra mitigation behaves very much like a little extra avoidance with either one giving a small increment of marginal safety.

    The difference between monk and ranger tanking doesn't flow from percentage point differences in avoidance and mitigation. It is dominated by different active abilities outside the scope of this thread.
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  8. Engineer Augur

    Rebalancing the classes' defensive structure based on revealing data is hardly a nerf. The data suggests more than just a boost to warriors, if it suggests that at all.
    Elricvonclief likes this.
  9. Igniz Augur

    This was more a reply to fransisco's suggestion of stripping warriors and Knights of DPS and healing.
    Calling to nerf an ability of a class just because said class called for a nerf (or a "rebalance") of one of their own abilities gets us nowhere and is not only particularly stupid as it weakens everyone, but also not asked for.
  10. fransisco Augur

    Except this isn't real data. There is no example of a warrior or knight actually tanking a mob (Which involves using their multitude of defensive abilities).
    This is about nerfing mage pets out of jealously and a grudge. but if you want to discuss class defensive structures - look at how close monks are to knights - even though they are not tanks.
    Maybe that should be examined too?
  11. Engineer Augur

    You shouldn't have included avoidance in that statement. Monk avoidance is through the roof compared to ranger avoidance, as it probably should be. Monk mitigation is an equal match for rangers, as it probably should not be.
  12. Engineer Augur

    Without a doubt.
  13. Lazy automation Elder

    Knights mitigate fine, we have a decent risk of being spiked but there should be some risk in tanking. Wars mitigate fine, they need more tools that mimic the damage reduction/self heal of knights. Pets mitigate way too well, lower their mitigation and raise their avoidance. Make it so they take the base line dps they currently take but be able to be threatened by spikes like all other tanks are.
    Elricvonclief and sinderkad like this.
  14. sojuu Augur

    Going a little off topic aren't ya? I guess if you think pets are about to be nerfed may as well call out other classes you dont understand and think deserve nerfs lol. Should really keep this about pets and how wars need boosts to be put on top of them again. If you wanna debate monks and try to wrongfully call for nerfs to them try starting another thread. Otherwise lets keep this towards focusing on boosting wars above tanks again.
  15. Tornicade_IV Augur

    Again? the never have been. thats the whole point. tanking is balances by overall production. Pet tanking mechanics are different than warrior tanking abilities. taking one part of the equation and making adjustments based on that would be just plain silly.
  16. sojuu Augur

    I was just mainly saying it was going off topic and needed to go back so it doesnt get locked. This thread is addressing something that does need some dev love. So id rather it stay on topic instead of going off on other stuff forcing a lock. If other stuff comes up they should start another thread.
    Elricvonclief likes this.
  17. Engineer Augur

    I don't understand the logic that pet tanking is broken and turning the game into easy mode, and that the way to fix this problem is to boost warriors so they are more powerful than pets.
  18. Langya Augur

    The options. Pick what you think is best:
    • Devs do absolutely nothing. There is nothing wrong. Period. Warriors continue their campaign but no one other than warriors takes it seriously.
    • Devs wait until next level cap increase content release and stagnate pets while giving tanks the usual spread sheet tier ups of existing abilities. Chance of minimal backlash.
    • Immediate across the board NPC tanking rewrite (AKA Nerf). Get this on Test immediately for next month's patch so the nerf takes place ASAP. Tanks remain as they are. There will be a backlash.
    • NPC tanking nerf AND tank boosts ASAP for next month's patch. NOTE: Warriors might end up God Mode in current content. Mercs take a hit as well possibly. Huge Backlash. Return of the Holy Trinity.
    • NPC nerf, massive tank boosts next content release, contingent on Hard Mode content being a central theme of the content release. If RoF/CoTF level of difficulty is to be maintained, than Warriors/Tanks remain how they are. No one gets an unfair advantage that makes any one class indispensable. Who knows. Maybe the game will just get rolled back to lvl 50 and we can go kill Naggy and Vox again.
    My guess is option 2 is the easiest to pull off without totally angering a bunch of people, but I believe option 1 is closer to the truth right now.
  19. Nurfz Journeyman

    I'm trying to figure out why we're still spending time talking about whether or not the parses are completely accurate. It's not like a slight deviation in numbers really does much to bolster the arguments in favor of pets.

    Pets are seen as too strong relative to content because relevant content is too strong relative to player tanks. I think that if pets are able to tank content meant to be tanked by player tanks that is actually fine. However, tanks need to always be the better option and by a great margin. In other words, if pets were the ones with the shaky health bars that were still able to squeeze by a victory, that would be fine but not the other way around.

    I think that damage in this game, in general, is poorly managed. It doesn't lend itself to inviting skill and intuitive game play. Rather, it seems as though it is based on luck and knee jerk reactions which don't accomplish much other than stress everyone out. It needs to be smooth where the Wizard can expect to be hit for 1000 (and more often) and the Warrior can expect to be hit for 400 (and less often). Put control back in the hands of the players where damage is predictable and healers/tanks can use all the tools at their disposal.

    Honestly, so many of you are missing the big picture here. By encouraging this kind of "meta" paradigm to be okay, you are only hurting yourselves. The barrier to entry will remain incredibly high for tanks and it will stay that way... well, until it doesn't.

    Ultimately, this inaction will lead to action. The game will hit a critically low subscriber count at which point it will cease to exist or it will flourish like we haven't seen it in years. A surge of growth due in full to acknowledging that any class based archetypal MMO system which does not recognize their tanks as the primary driving force is doomed to fail. This is just a fact and a well-proven fact at that.

    I'm actually not lobbying for or against tanks/pets, but rather trying to shed some neutral light on this situation. Just my two cents =)
    Elricvonclief, sinderkad and sojero like this.
  20. Zellic Elder

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