Pet Mitigation: Parses and Discussion

BL Warder with summoned gear (EM15) in Protection mode
Buffs: Certitude, Haste (has ac component), Protection mode

DI Spread:

Round by Round:

Avoidance:


Average dps on BL warder: 5061 in 1839 seconds (just over 30 minutes)

No debuffs on mob

DI20: 0.198728% (Chance for DI20 is one in 503)

DI19-DI20: 0.794913% (Chance for DI19-DI20 is one in 125.8)

Average hit for Necro pet: 4025
Average hit for BL warder: 3566

No, my parsing is to figure out how armor class returns for Pets (technically NPCs) stack up against player tanks (PCs) who are subject to armor class softcaps and diminishing returns. Though we can't see the pets "number", I can tell you that from parsing so far ... that "number" is higher than a player tank with greater than 15,000 displayed ac rocking a raid-caliber shield.

Starting my parse on a group geared paladin - results should be up in 30-60 minutes.

I don't know why anyone would have any issue with someone posting naked facts.

If facts are displayed and you automatically have to jump to a defensive stance because of those facts..well. That's on you.

They are facts, that have been around for a few years now. Which is the issue. Not to mention when the person says well pets are doing 'omgosh' and my class warriors are only doing 'good' its essentially drawing a conclusion that will lead to nerfs or boosts. By going as far as hitting all 3 classes pets it would appear the poster is trying for nerfs.

Facts used in comparison almost exclusively have nerfs in mind when displaying them. Otherwise the poster would have said wow look at BL/Mage/Nec pet tanking by themselves, but by drawing comparisons to classes (which essentially have no bearing on anything at all) it is filled with nerf calls to people who have been dealing with this for over a decade now.

The facts are not naked, they are dressed up quite nicely.

PM I received yesterday:

Should I apologize to you for acknowledging a request from a member of another pet class?

How are they 'dressed up nicely'?

Daegun, do you have access to raid geared monk and ranger? The supposed light tanks in EQ to compare these with? In fact it would be very nice to see how all classes defend against similar mobs.

What is your aim with you posts exactly? no rebalancing is needed? The Devs have it handled and players should stay out of it? I'm sorry but You don't deny the "facts" so whats wrong with discussing them?
Perhaps a better question: How would YOU fix the situation?

Maybe a Dev will one day use an actual good idea found somewhere on these forums but your stance that its been this way forever so we should just keep it hush hush and forget it, is hardly a useful position.

Oddly enough, the only time there has been a zone where those stats mean nothing regularly (PoWar), mages threatened to quit EQ with their 12445325621623 accounts.

Pretty sure most mages didn't threaten to quit EQ over the plane of war, however I know a fair amount of pet users that WOULD quit if the plane of war had its mechanics universally applied to the group game in the future.

Mage Earth Pet (EM15) - Long parse
Buffs: certitude, burnout

DI spread

Round by Round

Avoidance


Average dps on mage earth pet: 5240

No debuffs on mob

DI20: 0.038124% (Chance for DI20 was one in 2623)

DI19-DI20: 0.228746% (Chance for DI19-20 was 437)

Average hits:
Mage Earth Pet: 3706
BL Warder: 3566
Necro Warrior Pet: 4025

Average incoming dps:
Mage Earth Pet: 5240dps
BL Warder: 5061dps
Necro Warrior Pet: 5696dps

For raw damage intake, BL warder actually wins (probably the protection mitigation component of buff). The BL warder had smaller "hits" across each individual DI accounting (from that buff I'd wager) for this fact. From a statistically "strongest" tank, the earth pet wins. I am guessing it has the highest hit point pool, but more importantly it has the highest innate ac passive mitigation. Hitpoints aside, having such a low chance for those highest DI intervals makes it the least prone to spike fatality of all 3 pets.

What I would love the most is for people to back off my class and let the developers do their jobs, seeing as it is exclusively their job to maintain these things. The fact that in the last year pet tanking has seen I believe 7 nerfs based exclusively on these threads is very telling and should clear up any issue at all people take with players taking offense to the elaborate measures nerf callers will try and take.

There was a point a couple months back where we saw 3-4 pet tanking nerf threads sprout up a week, where were some people saying back off of the pet classes? It is odd how the shoe feels on the other foot, no? Hypocritical comes to mind, you can not say something one time and think your justified when you were no where to be found previously when the same thing was happening.

What is the issue? Do we all of a sudden nerf into oblivion 1 class because another class feels hurt that they can't do something quite as well as another? That essentially is what 99% of these threads come down to, one class is over another classes niche in a certain circumstance. SOE is fixing the situation and in doing so will lead to Magicians being ruined. They have started with Plane of War ruining aggro so pets simply can not hold it without killing their owner.

Like I said there are DOZENS of threads with the information out there. All of which contain the good, bad and ugly of both situations. The issue is only one side ends up losing because the majority of the community does not play pet classes, they merely use them as a stepping stone. They are also blind and can not see other things at work, people merely assume that because 1 player (no matter the gear/buffs/AAs/) is doing X easier then another player is it simply must be wrong and has to be fixed.

Tanks and pets both fill niches. Both have positives and negatives. As a pet class I feel pets get shafted far more then it is worth having them, but of course Tanks assume they get shafted more because they play that class also. SOE needs to fix the issue. They have parsers, they have the actual physical numbers of what pets buff to with everything on. This is why pets got nerfed at the foci level recently, they had too much stats which the developers easily saw and there was no conjecture necessary because the cold hard facts were there. Just like Dzarn posting in the AC thread.

Developers have the facts on statistics, they can accurately justify what is too much or too little and fix things. If they feel another nerf is needed for pet stats, then it will be done. Nothing I say will change that.

Please describe how Stats "mean nothing." Obviously tanks have some good utility that works well with their role, but if they did not have the stats to actually TANK then those utility skills would mean NOTHING. No one is arguing pets should not tank anything.

The point being made by many is:
A. Is it fair that, with far less effort, Pets can tank and even far out tank even raid geared players in Raw tanking power?
B. What is the proper balance for Pets if A is not fair?

It seems to me that no one is really arguing that A is not unfair. People generally just don't know what to do with B or are scared what B would bring so they just say "Don't call for Nerfs!!!"
Discussion is not a bad thing, issuses should be discussed.

All this data has led me to one conclusion:

The magician earth pet can tank well.

You could have just asked any magician that question and saved yourself about 5-10 hours.

Any other weekend this thread would have been closed on page 2. With Easter weekend it could reach 6-8 pages by Monday before it is locked...

Stats have nothing to do with Plane of War, its the fact that aggro is screwed up is why Mage's would threaten to quit. Essentially your telling an exclusive solo class your not allowed to solo here. Not because you know you lack gear or anything but because we do not want you to. That is a pretty stupid stance to take. Basically take what you do and remove it because SOE said so, not fun is it?

I am completely 100% fine with them saying "you are a solo class? we do not want you soloing mobs we are trying to ensure it takes 1-2 groups to take down, when the mobs drop RoF T3 quality loot".

Solo the trash all you want. I solo the trash as a druid regularly.

Ever try and gain snap aggro with a pet? Ever try and AE aggro with a pet? Ever try and tank with a pet while your healer is being beat on? Ever try and not take DMG with your pet in order to safe its life?

Those can not be accomplished with stats. Those are a few areas where tanks will always excel at, and those are areas where stats are not required to fulfill that. The tank may die with out stats, but the goal will be accomplished.

Why should you be soloing named intented for 2+ groups in the hardest open zone in the current game? I am genuinely curious why you think you are privileged to that.

Since we are also having fun collecting data and graphs, I would be curious to the tanking abilities and statistics of a well played warrior/SK/paladin for an extended period of time...utilizing every discipline they have, all their spells and capabilities...essentially a maximum productivity EQ player.

Because quite frankly I would hope an earth pet can tank better than a tank that just turns attack on...

Magicians have never been about the trash and everyone knows it. The class is one of the worst at AA gains per lesson. Pretty much any class can solo trash currently.

Anyone can get that same loot by killing mobs in CoTF for the random loot, why now change the rules? So your saying it is fine for you to get similar loot by killing trash mobs in CoTF (the Magicians niche) but when the Magician is upset they can not do the same by killing named you have an issue with it. That contradicts itself. I am sure your 100% fine with something that holds no bearing on YOUR class, but if we removed your healing in a zone I would imagine you may take some offense to it.

Why would it be locked? The only classes who have mentioned the words 'nerf' and have been aggressive are byinlarge mages. We were recently given the equation to learning our own actual ac. This took me on a trip down memory lane to the glory days of player tanks and mitigation. My initial goal was to find out of pets behaved like PCs in this regard or simply behaved on a raw number basis without the wonky calculations, soft caps, an diminishing returns.

There is never an indication to censor raw data. If anything, the moderators are welcome to delete the posts of individuals who are being counterproductive.