Pet Mitigation Ninja nerf

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Vincecross, Dec 9, 2015.

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  1. Lyrical Augur

    Um druids, wizards, bards, chanters , necros, rangers can solo them and never get hit. Im quite certain pallys and sks can do them with heals and taps. Shamans can certainly root and rot them, About the only peeps not soloing them now are warrios, rogues, and monks and heck monks might out dps them with mend up, not sure on them. Mages certainly arent soloing them until last classic pets. Even with sow, our nukes are to slow to get one off once the giant is in range of spell to be cast, before the giant catches up with us. And the pet is going to be dead long before you can nuke him dead.
  2. Bewts Augur


    I don't know why either. She died in seconds. Like 10-15 seconds.
  3. Bewts Augur

    I not so fondly recall multiple levels back in "the day" as a beastlord where my pet would turn green con and I was stuck soloing light blue mobs - and I had to tank my mobs when soloing.

    I typically grouped during those levels - which were the levels right before a new pet going through the level 50 to 60 range.

    Some levels will just suck for solo pet classes, and it's good to socialize on occasion anyways!

    I do feel for the mages who lost their epic pets on raids, totally ruins a class when your epic is useless because the pet it summons is a death wish for you.
  4. Riley Augur

    A death wish that does less than 2 dps with Mitigation of the Mighty targets, to boot. Joy!
    Adonhiram likes this.
  5. Poydras Augur

    "um" I said toe to toe. That means taking the damage.What do you think it means? You demand a game-breaking pet that can absorb damage no one else can hope to absorb, because you can't do the situational and dangerous little gimmicks other classes can occasionally exploit by kiting or root-rotting. How about just asking for a snare instead? Or just try playing one of those kiting classes when you feel like kiting stuff. You will learn how limited and tiring it is and not do it anymore. Why do you think you mages loved being mages so much? Perhaps it is because you found the lowered difficulty with which mages experienced eq, to be enjoyable. Because you still got the features of the class intact, you just need a balanced group around you like most of the rest of us have needed the whole time. And with the group xp bonus soloing is less important to eq than ever.

    And your list is an exaggeration at best. Seeing a lot of sub-40 bards/rangers/pallies soloing HG's? Really? And you forgot clerics.

    And no, I can tell you from personal experience that an sk needs to fear kite HG's or risk being embarrassed even when they are light blue. You may be thinking of sk's wearing gear from later expansions. Trying to tap through that dps will run you oom in no time. Someone else mentioned a pet taken to 30 or 50 percent at level 50, sounds like it did better than me. And without the super-fast regen afterwards of course.
  6. Riley Augur

    Boy, you sure are good at twisting the narrative into your narrow understanding of the problem. Keep it coming.
  7. Hokkus Journeyman

    Due to the pet nerf, I rolled a wizard on Phinny. At 43 I can kill mobs as fast as I ever could with a mage pet but I just use mana more rapidly to accomplish the same basic task. The difference, however, is I do not like the wizard class nearly as much as I did the mage class. I do not like sitting for hours waiting for a group and porting people around while I wait. I do not like sitting in one spot and one-shotting mobs for loot while waiting for a group. At least with a mage I could make some forward progress while I waited LFG. As a result, I haven't logged in for ten days now. I estimate I have about 60 days or so left on both of my accounts until I lose All Access.

    I suppose the game will be much better off, having fewer players sitting for hours waiting LFG. I suppose those of you that think the mage nerf is good will enjoy the game that much more, having fewer players to help you play the game the way you think it should be played. I am glad YOU are enjoying the game, because after all it is all about YOU. As long as YOU can use YOUR chosen class to be just as able to kill any mob anywhere that's what is important right? The idea that each class should have abilities that compliment the weaknesses of other classes isn't a consideration right? After all, everyone wants a team comprised of 6 identically weak players right; just so those that choose to play inherently group dependent classes can feel good about themselves.

    But wait, that is impossible to accomplish isn't it? Enchanters can charm mobs and out DPS the combined group (which they could do before the mage nerf by the way). Of course, they aren't much of a tank but with rune and stuns they can compensate for that, which is why Enchanters are soloing LGUK nameds and warriors aren't. Hmm, have to do something about that because we don't want warriors to feel left out. Of course druids are the king of snare/dot kiting. Warriors can't stand toe to toe with a hill giant but druids kite them with ease. So do wizards. Can't have that either. SK's, well they can snare and fear kite as well as take a few hits, and they get pets! Warriors get none of this stuff? What gives? I guess the idea what a warrior is designed to be totally group dependent is the problem. Let's fix this issue somehow. Nerf them all and let Poydras and those of his ilk sort them out. It's their game after all. It's all their game and its all about them.
    Adonhiram likes this.
  8. Adonhiram Augur

    I understand your feelings, I haven't logged in myself for four weeks and suffer a lack of motivation because of the pet issue. I have always played mage as main since may 2000 and I feel something is broken.
    Drexll likes this.
  9. Poydras Augur

    Sorry Hokkus but I'm not seeing your point, other than the above false dichotomy. The fact that perfect balance as you have defined it is impossible to achieve, does not mean they should ignore balance and end up with absurdly disproportionate numbers of people playing certain classes. Charm does seem too powerful these days, I agree. I also agree warriors are weak, as are bards and rogues. Players who pick those know tough it out anyway, improvements are coming in later expansions. Mages know this too but rant anyway.

    And you claim wizards can kite, which of course they can as can other classes, but you also complain of being unable to solo and get that progress. Why not go kite? Because you find it tiring and situational and not worth the effort? Yeah me too. Hence kiting is not a sufficient counter argument for a pet that can tank dark blues all day without needing heals.
  10. Dahaman Augur

    Made it to level 36...

    Level 36 yielded the new level 36 water pet. It is another huge damage increase over the level 31 pet. That was the most noticeable thing out of the gate. It was a monster in the place I was killing for XP. I probably should have blown thru level 36 there, as the mob kills were fast, even with them being light blue for the most part.

    However, I went to check out the Hill Giant action. That is the only place I found so far via research that might be a potential for soloing in classic at that level (going forward). There are a lot of people that say it is impossible or that no one can stand toe to toe with hill giants at level 36. And a mage now is a "tank" when soloing, no IFs, ANDs, or BUTs. This is the new class design, love it or leave it.

    After soloing 10+ hill giants, most by flat out face tanking, I can say with confidence that a level 36 mage (1200 hit points, max defense skill) can solo a hill giant... easily. These giants were dark blue as well as 3 or so being yellow. I had a good range of challenge.

    After the first three, I got the agro metrics worked out for the new pet vs. the hill giants. Pulling with the level 31 nuke meant that the hill giant would be needed for a flat out burn down, or the mage would have to tank too long for the pet to get agro. This is with the new Pet agro AA and Pet Taunt turned to on. So, I pulled with the level 15-ish nuke. That let the pet grab immediate agro and tank the hill giant as much as I wanted. Granted, it wasn't too long, but it was not instantly killing the pet at all. Still, the "value" of letting the pet tank was questionable. It might save one nuke, but there was a risk of losing the pet.

    To kill a Hill Giant, it takes four level 31 nukes to get it to the point of it fleeing. This is after counting in damage shield as well as pet damage over that time. My mage could pull with a level 31 nuke, and then often come close to getting the second off prior to the giant attacking. After that, it was casting the remaining needed thru interrupts and stuns. I'd say half of them got interrupted. If I was interrupted too much, it would only take 3 nukes, but my mage would be down a lot more hit points.

    All told, I went down to 50% hit points twice. The scariest was when two level 31 nukes were completely resisted. The second was when I was fiddling with pet agro and trying to see how long it took the pet to take agro from the level 31 nuke.

    HOWEVER, hill giants are NOT a good place to solo as a level 36 mage. Get two? Toast. SOW is therefore a must for safety (but hill giants easily give wealth enough to have SOW potions up always). The reason that it is not a good solo place has zip to do with the mage and everything to do with all the level 50s swarming the place due to the cash generation. The average time of a non agroed hill giant is <10 seconds. Due to how safe I had to be to ensure no giant ambushes, I had to stand on the outside of the 50s swarming party. I spent two hours (+13% XP) getting my 10+ giants data.

    For posterity, when I was there a level 32 druid was the lowest I saw soloing a hill giant. Necros were the most common level 50s soloing hill giants. I didn't see a single high level mage there. Most everyone else (besides me) was using snare effects to slay them.
  11. Tudadar Augur

    Any reason u pulled them with lvl 15 or 31 nuke over lvl 33 nuke which has 50% more range? Also is there any reason u used lvl 31 nukes to kill it over the lvl 33 nuke which is same cast time and 15-20% more damage?
  12. Dahaman Augur

    I wanted to make sure I removed any bolt line of sight issues during the initial assessment. The area I was pulling from/to had some minor hills. I was half expecting to have to flee or kite the giant around the pet.

    Now that I know that I can go toe to toe with a hill giant (in burn down mode), using the level 33 Bolt spell could tweak the safety/efficiency levels.
    Tudadar likes this.
  13. Riley Augur

    Putting aside the bait and switch of being nerfed four times in the relatively small window of time since I rolled my mage, no. Improvements are not coming. I busted my hump and countless hours doing the mage epic, which after having done nearly all of them, is the hardest one I've encountered. Now, I'll never be able to use it to raid with.

    I've been over on the test server, a place where Luclin is available. It should stand to reason that the nerfs shouldn't apply there, but guess what? They still do. So, my epic pet is forever garbage. There will be no improvement to it.

    So, yeah, I think I'm understandably pissed off, and whatever your weird anti-mage agenda is, your arguments make increasingly little sense.
    Adonhiram likes this.
  14. Poydras Augur

    With PoP mages get new pets and the much-noted OP ability to charm. Does this make sense to you yet?
  15. Dahaman Augur

    Mages can go toe-to-toe with hill giants at level 36. And I mean taking the damage, getting stunned, getting interrupted, getting resisted, and still staring those big bad giants right in the face until they run scared. Yes, running scared to their mommy and daddy hill giants at home.

    By the same method, wizards and necros can also do it of course. Enchanters, I'm not certain they have the same level of nuking power at that level. However, toss in a slow and they can certainly face tank them the same way. Granted, any wizard, necro or enchanter doing so would be laughed out of sorcerer's school. They all have other methods of avoiding that face tank moment. It's actually laughable to even think about that. And it's only fair afterall. Mages have the natural fortitude of self delusions to protect themselves in toe to toe battle.

    Mage Mantra:

    Mages, you are meant to be a tank when soloing. That is your new class design. Get use to it.

    Mages, you will bleed on bleeding edge kills. Your pet will not hold agro while you burn mobs quick enough for you both to survive. You will get no additional tanking perks. You will get stunned and spell interrupted more and more due to longer and longer casting times.

    And Mages, you will like it!

    ********************************************

    This is meant as satire only. Anyone who calls for a mage nerf due to their "tanking prowess" needs to go tap a brewing barrel after a good day of skilling up. ;)
  16. Poydras Augur

    I have to admit I wasn't thinking of the chain-nuking-in-the-face strategy when I was talking about toe to toe. I was thinking more of sustained dps race instead of burst dps. Necros I'm not so sure about their burst dps keeping up, though it obviously doesn't matter for them.

    I vividly recall my mage being crushed in a very close toe to toe fight with a mean blue con sarnak at lvl 40 ish on ragefire. But as I said it was close and if I'd had your devotion to defense I guess it would have turned out a lot better.
  17. Dahaman Augur

    The hill giants ranged from dark blue to yellow. ZAM had them listed as level 34 to 35, but they were most definitely a level 35 to 37 or bigger range. I was leery of attempting the first yellow, but hey, SOW potions are better than liquid courage.

    Alas, there is zero strategy for the mage now. For bleeding edge mobs, there is only chain-nuking-in-the-face. I can't let the pet tank long due to it taking too much damage. And the pet can't hold agro from me unless I let it tank for a while. I'm kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    No matter what, my mage has to face tank hill giants to win. There is zero choice in the matter. There is zero strategy now. As such, it has never been simpler game play to kill mobs with the mage. It is harder to win, but it is insanely simple - Mash One Button.

    Is that good or bad? I dunno. It is a boring development for the class in my opinion. I tend to lean towards lower level dark blues to light blues as far more interesting fights now.

    EDIT: My "devotion to defense".... I honestly think that is just the natural state of mages today. I started this mage after the last big nerf to mitigation. I've been forced to tank since the start (since I'm forced to solo only). This has kept me with Defense skill at max naturally with no extra effort. And my Bind Wounds skill (160+) has never been higher on any character I've ever played in the past.
  18. Poydras Augur

    Well soloing is just boring. Personally I always thought the wizard had the funnest strategy in maniacally nuking things down (then after a couple kills go afk and do something else while you med back up...). in a group they're always so inhibited by aggro, it's great to finally cut loose. I'm sure the reason there's not nearly as many necros as the class power balance says there should be is the snoozefest that is cooking mobs to death with dots. Charm probably gets them more interest than anything, since that's where all the excitement is.

    For a comparison story, the other day I spotted a named mob while going somewhere with my bard. It was light blue so I first tried just slowing and meleeing it. When my health hit 60 percent before the mob hit 95 percent I decided to kite it instead. After kiting a while I noticed I felt kinda sick and after wondering if I had the flu or something I realized it was just dizziness from running in circles so freaking much. Lord knows how long it took to kill the thing. I won't be doing that again for a while.
  19. Dahaman Augur

    You should like the new mage then. The higher level I get, the more sit and wait for mana it gets. When I do get to let loose though... I was killing hill giants in less time than the level 50 necro was taking.

    I never was a fan of that style of play, solo or not. I prefer constant action.

    A mage still has near constant action if I target lower level mobs. Against higher level mobs, yes, my level 36 mage can beat hill giants, sit and wait 3 to 4 minutes for mana and hit points afterwards, but it destroys my fun to do so.

    I'm having difficulty finding mobs to solo of that sweet spot target level. I am thinking of shelving the mage experiment until Kunark, when Overthere and Dreadlands can be pillaged properly.
  20. Riley Augur

    Nope. You're just a font of contradictions, bad opinions, and terrible play.

    Dima, is that you?
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