Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Yimin, Feb 15, 2017.

  1. ~Mills~ Augur

    The above sums up your comments on the matter more or less. I am not arguing those facts at all. I am saying for single target trash mobs I should not have to do "lots of other stuff" for the pet to live reliably.

    A warrior pet that has something like 180k hps naked, raid focus, raid self pet buffs, merc buffs, 10k pet related AA and a dedicated merc healer should not be 50/50 on a single trash mob unless the necro himself steps in for even further support. A SINGLE TRASH MOB. Other actions should be reserved for named or oh moments or some rare really difficult mob ie then having to use cascading doomshield every 18s or casting pet heals or casting phantasmal on refresh or casting aegis on refresh and slowing the mob or having a full set of TS attuneable gear would be required. But a single trash mob verse a supposedly raid focused warrior pet with a dedicated healer should not require its owner should to have to do anymore then dps.

    Otherwise like I said its pointless. I am better off root rotting or kiting or tanking myself with swarm pets or using swarm pets or boxing a tank or getting a tank or getting a mage pet or getting a beastlord pet. All of which require half the effort and result in faster killing or easier completion. To kill a single trash mob I should not have to use the necro pet version of fortitude, last stand, pain doesn't hurt and dicho. Because blanket nerfs to control mage pets have gutted our warrior pet.
  2. menown Augur

    Calling BS on this. Just tested with my Warrior pet, EM23 focus and Sigil + cleric buff. Pet died to a Yellow con Sarnak in Kor'Sha Lab static zone. Got the NPC down to about 40% before pet died. Though, I did see some tanking improvements when attacking other NPCs that I used to have trouble with. My pet used to die without necromancer assistance against the blue con skeletons in Lceanium, with merc, buffs, and all. I have stopped giving any bazaar gear to my pet long ago because my pet would still die quite easily 1v1.

    Along the lines of the DPS of the rogue pet vs. warrior pet, I had parsed out about a 500 DPS difference between the 2 about a year ago. That of course changes if you give both weapons. Rogue pets can backstab from the front if and only if holding a weapon. I don't box at all so I rarely get any other buffs for my pet and I refuse to buy pet weapons anymore because they do constantly die when I am not assisting pet with runes and undead slow.
    Vrinda likes this.
  3. MyShadower All-natural Intelligence

    That's right putting 2 - 2 hour+ buffs on your pet hitting a button every 5 mins and letting the robot heal while you cast damage spells is way too much to have to do to kill a mob.
  4. MyShadower All-natural Intelligence

    Yup, been playing EQ since 2000 and necro only since 2007. I so can't wait to get them nerfed to oblivion so I have no reason to play!
  5. MyShadower All-natural Intelligence

    I concede. I am definitely making all this up.

    Necromancers need more power in addition to what they were given in EoK. More pet power and the possible boost from the DoT revamps, this cannot possibly go wrong for the class.
  6. Sancus Augur

    I thought this thread would end badly, but I wouldn't have guessed that necro pet power was the reason...
    Vdidar likes this.
  7. ~Mills~ Augur

    I think you are getting certain results but not understanding the why or just being hard headed about what you are actually doing. If you only do as you describe above, which is the point most of us seem to agree on but you, since the past few rounds of pet nerfs even with EM XXIII your warrior pet will die 50% of the time or more on single trash mobs. That shouldn't be the case for a raid focused warrior pet, with a dedicated healer, with some tank buffs and 10k aa bolstering its stats.

    Yes there are other things we can do to help with that but for a single trash mob it should not be required when you have a raid focused warrior pet and a dedicated healer. Otherwise you are just better off handling things another way. I don't want mage powered pets but I do think our warrior pet should be passively boosted back up more in some manner as our weaker pet was nerfed far to much.
  8. menown Augur

    I am not asking for more power. I just am clarifying what you said is wrong about what a necro pet can do without the assistane of a necro, but only with RB, merc healing, and Necro/Cleric buffs.
  9. MyShadower All-natural Intelligence

    Would killing a yellow con skeleton in Lceanium with a non-focused 105 pet that only has Sigil, Surety, merc healer and RB be a reasonable example of the pet's capability?

    No slow, no runes, RB and merc healing only. Necro just does DPS and 1 debuff to keep magic resist down.

    How about an example of killing 2 yellow con mobs with EM23, Sigil, Surety, merc healer and RB?
    The 2nd just got AA rooted away from pet/merc/self. Both killed back to back with pet tanking.

    No slow, no runes, no healing aside from RB procs and merc. In Kor-Sha it makes for some tense moments but the necro is definitely not going to die even if the pet does. Necros can be this lazy and kill mobs in Kor-Sha.

    If you want exact buff details for the necro (only cast by merc or necro) I am happy to provide them as well. I would happily do the same live in front of anyone as it is very repeatable and there is no special skill involved. We have not begun to throw in tools outside of my gear which I am certain will be your next point. I have raid gear and Rk3 spells. I can certainly go farm group gear or make another necro that is all group stuff but any other necro could use the same method that already has this and do the exact same thing, it might take a little longer to kill the mob but it is very doable.

    Start throwing in all the other available tools (pet gear, runes, burn discs, tribute) this just gets easier to manage and less risky. When I do use runes, it is cascading and the AA rune which do not need to be spammed.

    An EM18 is quite capable of killing stuff somewhere in between this large spectrum. You definitely cannot just do this on every mob in EoK but I am certain "god awful" lies outside these basic capabilities.

    I cannot attach the logs here so:
  10. menown Augur

    Finally you are coming out with more truthful statements. Lceanium is a different zone than Kor-Sha. You finally admit that the necro will not die in Kor'Sha using this tactic of yours even if the pet does die.

    This did not always use to be the case. The skeletons in Lceanium used to cast a buff (I forget the name) on themselves and they no longer do anymore. Also, the pet focus was just changed, in favor of the caster's pet. I no longer have any trouble killing those skeletons like I did when the expansion first launched.

    You can try to deflect your statement about what the necro pet can do with what the Necro can do. I know very well what the Necro can do to survive and even decimate content. But, I will always be truthful on what the pet itself can do too.
    Vrinda likes this.
  11. Vanlaven Elder

    Ok im not weighing in on whether or not pets can / cant tank x mobs or should be able to tank whatever....but i will say that a pet tanking 2 mobs meens the pet tanking them simultaneously. Saying your pet tanked one while the other was rooted and equating that with pet tanking 2 is just false. By that logic my pet can tank to sum of all the mobs he has ever tanked lol.

    And even if you were to only consider the pet to be tanking everything on agro at any given time regarless of if some of it is cced....i often times have 4-6 mobs on agro root rotting them. If i then send my pet to tank another mob is he considered to be tanking them all? Seems silly.

    This doesnt seem to be a discussion about how many mobs a class can control and kill at once, bot a discussion strictly on pet tanking as in how many (or what type / level of) mobs dmg can the pet take without going splat.
  12. Bigstomp Augur

    Wow, pet classes I play with seem happy with the current boost.

    What's the problem again?
  13. ~Mills~ Augur

    Just wow. I guess you missed the post I made about 20 back where I said the best group focus should get the warrior pet able to do Lcea without dying. And that em 23 means the warrior pet should tank in Kor'sha or Chardok or Droga without needing anything else and not die verse a single.

    LOL at your tanking 2 mob summary. My pet just tanked 20 mobs at once, well I was kiting them and he was hitting one so it counts right?
  14. MyShadower All-natural Intelligence

    This is where I see there is no way you will ever be convinced the pet is not "god awful".

    You have 1 log with an unfocused pet killing a trash mob exactly how I claimed it can be done by any necro using such minimal tools. A 2nd log refuting another poster that the necro pet can't even tank a yellow con in Kor-Sha with EM23 and said other minimal tools.

    Never did I say the pet tanked 2 mobs simultaneously or that it can sustain that kind of damage. He tanked two mobs back to back, one after the other both yellow cons. The logs clearly show how the pet is not "god awful" and capable of doing exactly what you are saying it cannot do, stand up to a mob while the necro just does DPS.

    Now you want a pet that can tank one of these without any kind of support, seriously? Does it also need to do all of the damage?
  15. MyShadower All-natural Intelligence

    Please do not refer to this as my tactic. This is just what the game offers. It is not tactical in any way. You activate a buff, send in the pet and DoT a mob. Robot heals.

    Yes, and the pet is "god-awful" is different than the pet can tank trash with minimal support in the final expansion zone.

    Did I ever say the necro will die if the pet dies or that the pet cannot die?

    Excellent. Two necros coming forward to let Mills know the pet can now do Lceanium trash. Let's not start a pointless argument about them being able to do it before the patch.

    I am confused by this. You will have to tell me what I lied about.

    Even with every tool availalble, the pet can still die, and it should be able to. No statement I have made is BS about the pet's capabilities. I have not twisted any truth or claimed the impossible. I simply posted a log showing the pet can do exactly what you said it could not do.

    The recent patch made things better for pets in general but they weren't suddenly given this magic power with that patch.
  16. Siddar Augur

    You seem to base your views on what a necromancer pet should be able to do based upon the unique situation of having vast numbers of non summoning mob in EoK. That cant be certain going forward we just came out TBM that had almost know mobs that didn't summon. TDS had many mobs CC abilities changed after release.

    Those who are disagreeing with you are one who don't want are pets balanced around a feature related to a single expansion.
  17. ~Mills~ Augur

    IDK what to tell you if you think a raid focused pet with a dedicated healer merc and 10k aa focusing it is good because it can handle a single trash mob in the entry zones of an expansion. Otherwise its gonna die unless you make a big effort to keep it alive. Pretty sure the mass of the class disagrees with you and expects that from a group focus and a lot more from a raid focus. They agree its stupid how god awful our warrior pet has become but they just carry on by bypassing our warrior pet by root rotting, kiting, swarm pet killing, eating rounds of damage themselves or getting a group which as Siddar points out might not always be an option depending on the content. EoK is actually pretty easy content which is why you see tanks doing what they do yet our pet folds like he is a tds group geared caster and not a warrior pet.

    Yet to test them now but I am pretty sure every class just got a tank merc that exceeds the tanking ability of our pet without spending 10k AA on it, without losing 33% of their spell allotment every level increase, without requiring a focus effect. Thats god awful regardless of how you seem to want to spin it.

    Not an exact comparison since its a pet vs player which shouldnt be equal but could you imagine if a raid geared warrior with 10k aa in defensives could only tank a single mob in the entry zone with a merc? And required the use of last stand, fortitude, pain doesnt hurt or dicho to tank singles in higher content or it was certain death? Meaning group geared warriors need these tools in entry zones just for singles and need everything including the kitchen sink to tank singles in higher tiers and then have to wait until refresh of these tools comes back up to tank a single mob again?
  18. MyShadower All-natural Intelligence

    If this is directed at all the posts about a necro pet tanking trash mobs, why would the necro have much if any concern whether the mob summons if the only intent is to have the pet tank it?

    My whole point is necro pets are not so weak as to be inferior for the content and they were not before the patch. Using them was more difficult before the patch, absolutely. If we are going to claim mage pets are tanking 3 trash mobs at once and necro pets cannot tank a single trash mob reliably, let's back that up with facts about what has been tried. If someone tells you there is a way to do it, try it out. If you believe necro pets should get balanced while ignoring specific abilities necros have, explain why. Maybe a dev will see it your way.

    My opinion of pet power/balance is just that my opinion, how pets are balanced is some amalgamation of what devs do behind closed doors and maybe player "feedback." We can only attempt to infer what the purpose of nerfs/changes are that make things different. Balance is an ongoing process. If you want to get into the history of pet power and why it is what it is, that is a whole other topic.
  19. MyShadower All-natural Intelligence

    I get it man. You have a view that the few in here are speaking for the class. I just gave you a method that you can try yourself that will let you put all those pet AA and then some to use. You do not have to give up any spell slots for the pet although I highly recommend cascading be on your bar. You do not have to turn and slow non-undead mobs. If it suits you, you have that option too.

    You have an innate advantage against most mobs in EoK. You can walk into the fight with 3 and heal/absorb a lot of damage while dealing a lot simultaneously. If you are choosing not to use that advantage, it does not mean you should just get a different advantage while keeping the exisiting advantages. That is not balance.
  20. IblisTheMage Augur

    Have you blocked slow heals on your warrior pet? Maxed pet AA; and merc on reactive?