Lrn 2 read. I said WHEN necro pets can handle singles without the chance of death without going completely overboard for a single trash mob tuning wise that usually means a mage pet can handle 3 at a time without issue. Like was the case before all these pet nerfs in the last year or so. Mage pets were tanking 3 mobs without issue and the devs started nerfing pets the problem is you can't nerf necro and mage pets the exact same amount because they are so much weaker.
Not sure if you are new here but necro tank pets were always pretty beefy and tanked pretty reliably for the entirety of EQ, outside of when all pets where gimped. Lately not so much because of when the devs do stuff like remove 500 ac from all pets it brought mage pets back down to earth some but left necro tank pets basically not worth the hassle. But doesn't factor in for the fact that mages pets have like 500 extra ac to start, get 200 more ac from this class only buff or get another 100 ac from such and such a proc (just for instances not actual data) so the necro pet might have only needed 100 ac less to get what they wanted and not have lost 500 because thats what the mage pet needed. Mage pets should tank better and mages should have better oh tanking tool but it should be pretty close. In dps and variety mages should excel and have no pet rival imo with stuff like ranged dps pet, pet that stuns that destroys some content, earth pet thats slightly better and a rogue pet that dps wise blows other dps pets out of the water. A designated warrior pet with the best focus available should not require slow, 3 spammed runes, owner heals and merc heals just to get by on a trash mob reliably. Its stupid and not worth the effort at all despite something like 33% of spells and prob 40% of AA being pet related to just eeek by on trash mobs.
Uhhh, wouldn't that be when the classes were created, Blue? Mage pets were always stronger from the beginning, since their utility sucked/sucks, so you were #2 to start, and when bst were introduced in Luclin, the warder was intentionally the 2nd strongest pet of the 3, no? That's what Pepperidge Farms remembers. Or are you referring to the gap between the classes itself? That does seem wider now than originally, but I really don't seem to recall a time when the new pet itself was better than their colleague's ones. I utterly agree with your point about blanket pet balancing, though. One of the worst effects of the multiple rounds of pet nerfs is that it really affected the classes in different ways, which in turn made the necro pet quite a sissy.
Mage pets have always been the best but a necro tank pet was pretty damn close for basically ever. Beasts had the 2nd best dps pet but necros had the 2nd best tank pet. Then stuff started to be split up. You have base power tuning which offers an advantage to mages, which really should be the only tank gap but often shows up as base pet stats and than armor on top of it which isn't a given for bst/nec for just normal trash clearing. But then you do the same for spells and buffs, in some cases leaving a class or 2 off, further widening what was pretty close more for the first time. The same starts to appear in AA lines that are enhanced for one class more or that leaves off the others. So you start off with 100% vs 85-90% difference and when everything else is factored in it becomes 100% vs 50% gap. Yet when its time for nerfs they are blanket nerfs and always hit for equal amounts despite the artificial gap that has slowly appeared tanking wise in the last few years. In dps it is what it is but for tanking it cant be the case or other pets might as well be a druid bear.
Where did I say they have not declined? I am saying they have never declined to the point they are pointless or complete failures as is being claimed here. The recent patch gave them back some abilities. With a merc healer they can tank a red con in a Kor-Sha Laboratory HA without the necromancer's assistance. If the player puts in more effort than cast pet, target mob, hit /pet attack, they can do much, much more. I have moloed most of the content as a necromancer since HoT and did some of the content before those with my character in the level range for the content. The pet was and still is invaluable. My point is, if you want the pet the other class has, go play that class. Claiming the pet is useless to get it boosted is only going to hurt the class in the end. What the pet is supposed to be capable of is debatable and in the end, up to the developers.
The worst I have seen the warrior pet is EoK and it could still be used to molo through the expansion. Now they have boosted it enough where he is not in any danger on a single trash mob with a merc healer. It could tank EoK named before the patch and it does it better now. It has power.
I guess I must have miss-read in all the mew mewing, hyperbole, and lies. Many necros constantly say they can pet tank a single mob easily (Often times easier than mages since mages cannot slow mobs and necros have FAR more swarm pets to help out). So, necro pets can tank 1 mob just fine. Mages pets certainly cannot dream of 3 mobs at once. Look mom, I learned to spell and read!
And I am guessing for you to kill those single trash mobs you are one of those guys that decks your pet out in the best player made attune-able gear, gets him every tank buff in game and spams all 3 runes, possible heals in addition to the dedicated healer merc and slows every single mob. I am sorry but that is beyond stupid for single trash mobs. You want to push it and do stuff above and beyond than yes that stuff should all have to occur but for single trash cons thats stupid. You have better options that take half that effort making the tank pet pretty pointless if thats the upkeep it needs to get by.
Not going to go back and forth with everyones pet opinions all day. Regardless of how much higher mage pets end up if this new gap has to remain. A necro warrior pet with top group focus, max pet aa, merc buffed should be able to kill single T1 trash mobs with just a merc healer. Higher tiers should require normal pet gear, runes possible necro healing help and slows. 2 should be a major struggle unless its CC'd pretty quick. Fancy attune gear buys you some leeway here but should not be required just to get by. A necro warrior pet with top raid focus and same conditions above should be able to kill single trash mobs in higher tiers of content with just a merc healer. Require runes, necro help and slows to just get by on 2 mobs. Named should require fancy pet gear, buffs, slows, all the bells and whistles and at 2 healers while still not being a certainty.
Your assumptions are incorrect. I wear my pet foci at all times, use the pet buff and a merc healer with slow heals blocked as the minimum so he is never without Sigil and Surety. I use cascade rune and AA rune as needed while saving the OH heal for those times the merc falls behind or an add comes by. Our pet heal is too slow to be relied on, not that it doesn't have its uses, but RB is a no brainer to have up at all times. Slowing mobs by debuffing them, nuking them with a slow-to-cast nuke then casting slow (which is mitigated) is a waste of time in my opinion. I could have 25% of their HP gone in that time or better approach the fight. If the mob is undead, debuffing and slowing may or may not be worth it still. For named, I do not attempt to slow non-undead unless I have made several failed attempts without it. It is most often doable without it. Seeking out/waiting around for other character buffs is a waste of time for me. I will not trade the time for just going back in and trying again. I use what necros can cast, mercs can cast and clicks available to necros. Sure I'll have buffs on me sometimes from other classes but it is not part of my prep or routine. If I want minimum hassle I will gear the out of my pet. I have a TS bag dedicated to making pet gear as needed. It's a play style choice, you do not have to do it to make the pet useful. For named, I usually start with wanting minimum hassle so I get two pets prepped, with the one that is out getting full gear and full necro/cleric merc buffs while the second is more for backup and attempting to recover a bad situation. It takes time and resources to buff and gear them up so if I expect many deaths I will not bother. This was certainly the case at the start of EoK. Sometimes pet tanking was not the answer or only part of the answer. I molo most of the time in group content, I do not have a box or an extra merc. Sometimes I solo, kite/pet tank/tap tank/root/combinations. There are many options for necros.
I see you're using a pet equipped with tadeskill items as your benchmark. You will find most pet classes don't think that is valid comparison. In fact I will state you could not have done what you describe without tradeskill items.
If you want to keep saying the pet cannot tank a current content trash mob, make a video. Show your gear, casting pet, casting buffs then killing/not killing the mob. Surely if it cannot be done, this is the proof that will swing everyone to the side of "OMG necro pets are useless?" Anything to the contrary is just going to get us nerfed. You keep picking out what you want from my posts. I use TS items, yes, not always because it is is not "cheap". It is in no way my baseline for saying the pet has power and is capable of tanking trash, even named. The TS items make it easier. If you want to invalidate that as part of certain other game play by all means, feel free. Since TS are part of the game and equipping pets are part of the game, I hope the devs would not just ignore that when they balance pets.
I didn't say it couldn't tank trash mobs. I'm saying what you describe isn't consistently possible using the methods you are using without tradeskill items. PS You should really learn to slow mobs Swarm, Terris, Undead Nuke, Slow.
So what you are saying is if you spam a 64k rune and 36k heal on our pet every 18s while also giving them gear that adds something like 2500 ac, 28k hps and heroics with a healer merc and rb procs they can effectively tank singles without issue. /Boggle the point is all that should not be required for single trash mob tanking with reliability. Otherwise as you said our other more effective tools bypass pet tanking because of what a hassle it is, ie pointless. Im sure if i got 4 main healers I could jsut tank current content on my necro himself non stop but its pointless when I could just get real tank to pull 2-3 at a time with a single healer while I dps instead.
Yes, how short sighted of me to not slow mobs that using 3 spells when it is not necessary at all. Not doing it and not knowing how to do it are two very different things. You seem to be defending the posts saying necro pets are useless. My position is, that is utter .
You are meshing the entire content into one summary of your choosing. Simplified: At minimum you need your foci item on when you cast the pet. Sigil, Surety, merc on reactive, block promised heals on pet, RB up with you doing casting spells that proc it (otherwise RB is not working). Your pet should be able to tank current content trash. If you choose to monkey with slow and spamming runes and pet heal, even better for you. Runes do not need to be spammed and the mob will not die any faster while you spam heal. If you can show your pet just keeps dying using only these tools, I will concede necro pets cannot tank trash mobs in EoK. I completely agree, this was a nail biter before the most recent patch but the pet could still get things done. It is not pointless to use all the tools available in the game. I seriously cannot understand why you do not expect to have to use some form of the tools provided. Posting that mages can tank 3 mobs at once and necro pets are "god awful" to get more power for them is just going to send us back to very weak pets all over again when someone making more effective use of the tools does more than tank a single trash mob and make it look effortless.
I don't think you will get any youtube videos. It very clear what happens if you show what a class is capable of at the highest level. Even if someone was attempting to show how under powered a pet was. But continue howling at the moon in your crusade to nerf necromancers.
