Perma-camps and spawn timers

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by kramer2202, Jan 7, 2013.

  1. kramer2202 Elder

    Something really needs to be done about the spawn timers and old content mobs that people perma-camp. For YEARS, I have been trying to get Cragbeast Queen, and I can never find her up. There has got to be something that can be done to the spawn timer or the perma-camping to give everyone a chance at these mobs/loot and not the same person owning a mob for them and all their alts.
    Vouivre and Leerah like this.
  2. JERUS Augur

    IIRC it can only spawn at midnight gametime or something like that. I had no issues finding her a like 4-5 years back for my ogre mask and then like 2 years again for a friends haste belt. Are you sure you're checking at the right times?
  3. kramer2202 Elder

    Yes, 12-2am gametime, only times i check, never up
  4. Leerah Augur

    Chardok King pops every 90 mins. They'll get to CBQ.
  5. Axxius Augur

    Mob: Lord Inquisitor Seru.
    Drop: the fastest mount in game (one of).
    Access restrictions: none (the key is not even needed, duck-unduck to enter the Arx, broken since 2001).
    Spawn time: every 72-84 hr regardless of server downtimes, very easy to keep track of.
    Status: perma camped when due to spawn.
    Life expectancy: 30-60 sec after spawning, aggroes on any AFK char standing near his spawn point, gets killed by pet or merc.
    SOE attention level: not a single [xxxx] given.
  6. Vouivre Augur

    I agree they need to increase the spawn rate on raid mobs after they become old enough. Maybe do them when they unlock old zones?

    I did get my Cragbeast spawn a few years ago just by checking every time I thought about it.
  7. FrankeB New Member

    I was going through an epic for alt in the recent weeks that required both plane of growth and plane of fear drops and i gave up after checking a couple times a day for a week on both zones.
    It's ridiculous and a pure luck game that you can A: get in at the very moment the zone is respawning, B: beat any number of other dozens of people also after mobs and C: be quicker than any number of scripted/bot toons that are auto clearing zones and have the timers all set up.

    It's a toss up for sure, the stuff is a cake-walk obviously these days but it was different 5-10 years ago when you were waiting on getting guild members on, or in line behind 5 other people camping a mob where as today it's just a luck game that you hope you have that super rare chance of catching your mob up before some random person runs in with an alt and clears out a whole zone in 5 mins just for the fun of it.
  8. Gnomeland Augur

    There are several intersecting issues here. I'm going to go on a TLDR because I find this a valuable design problem in MMOs.

    The first is that of old mobs dropping items that are not replaceable with modern gear. People camp Cragbeast Queen for the haste click belt - and at times for the illusion click, but the haste click is what is valuable. Now, imagine that in OoW, all class armor had a 50% haste click on the helm. Nobody is going to camp Cragbeast Queen ever again.

    Is forcing players to go back to previous content to farm clickies acceptable? In a way, it is. It increases the longevity of the content. In WoW, you never have to go back to old content. Therefore, nobody does. In EQ, having unique items drop from old content, which are useful to players, expands the range of usable content and is, therefore, a positive. Thus, the first issue is, in my opinion, not an issue.

    The second issue is that the mob is a raid mob with a 4.5 day spawn timer, which makes camping it a very time consuming task - your only option, other than having it timed, which requires you to have killed it in the first place, is to sit in a zone for up to 4.5 days, 24 hours a day, waiting for it to spawn, and hoping you're awake when it happens.

    Imagine that, instead, it wasn't. Imagine that the haste click dropped, instead, from an instance that is doable every 30 minutes. This solves the problem of rarity and people timing the spawns, because now it's available to everyone after 30 minutes of instance running. But the cost is that this reduces the item's rarity and trivializes its value. What everyone has, nobody feels special for having. The CBQ belt enters the game at a rate of (365 / 4.5) * 0.9 ~72 belts per year, minus server restarts which I'm going to say increases it to a nice, round 100 belts per year. This is far below the amount of players and twinks who want it. Thus, having the belt makes you special.

    The third issue is that the mob spawns on an exact cycle, instead of randomly. This is a rather minor issue, in my opinion, because were it to spawn randomly - but with the same rarity - your only option for camping it is still the same old 'sit in the zone for up to 4.5 days, 24 hours a day, waiting for it to spawn, and hoping you're awake when it happens.' The only result for having it spawn randomly, but with the same rarity and value, is that people are going to have twinks sitting in Natimbi 24/7 with audio triggers for when she spawns, followed by a bunch of KSing ultimately won by a raid geared wizard who two shots the mob. In short, it won't help.

    In the end, the 50% haste click that you want - and that other people want - is a luxury item, not a need. It replaces the need to buy Alacrity X potions, which costs you ~40 plat / 30 minutes, less with an Alchemy twink. The CBQ belt is therefore useful, but not a requirement. For a luxury item to have value, it has to be rare and useful. The CBQ belt is therefore aptly designed - it's rare, it improves the longevity of content, and it is useful. Only a few are ever going to call themselves the owner of this item and that's by design.

    But is there a better design? Keep in mind that we want the following from the item / camp: it has to improve content longevity, it has to be rare, and it has to be useful.

    The answer is: there is! It's simply this: add additional camps with the same features as the CBQ, but which drop different useful items that do not overlap with each other.

    Huh? Doesn't that just give people additional painful 4.5 day camps...

    YES.

    Well, okay, obviously we need improvements to the 'sit in the zone for 4.5 days waiting for a spawn' method of obtaining an item. But the basic principle stays the same.

    First, because the camps have the same features as the CBQ, it retains the content longevity improvements the CBQ camp gives you.

    Second, because the camps are of the same rarity as the CBQ, the items dropped from them retain the same rarity.

    Third, because the items are different, they don't decrease the value of other rare and unique items. Thus, owning a CBQ belt does not make, say, having a Seru horse - also perma camped these days - less valuable. This is because the CBQ belt does not replace the Seru horse. Both have their uses, and both allow players to be special in a way that players without them are not - in the areas in which the items are useful.

    In a world where everybody is special in the same way, no one is special. In a world where everybody is special in a different way, everybody is special. Thus, an ideal game has to prevent the former, and encourage the latter.
    Jenniebean and Leerah like this.
  9. Moklianne Augur

    They really should just allow instances for any static content older than 5 years. At least static zones with raid content in them. Use a lockout timer of a week for any static zone instanced and be done with it. While camping a rare named for days was part of the original EQ experience (I have a love-hate relationship with it), those times are long gone.

    VT is another zone that I still want items from, but it gets cleared by people with camped toons right at the bosses every time, so I feel your pain.
    Synthemesc and Vouivre like this.
  10. Trajet D'Or Augur

    That's what instancing is for, want a 15% Spec Alt/Evo/Conj aug or a Mushroom illusion, it still requires killing things once every 4.5 days or longer and some luck with the RNG but everyone who wants to spend the time can get the item.

    Someone on Trakanon or Vox has the same chance of getting the item as someone on AB or Xegony.

    Uninstanced content still has a few desirable items, deal with it or do without. 3 spawns every 2 weeks, once of those spawns will take place in the Friday evening to Sunday night window that most people don't work or have school. Some basic research and math and you will narrow down the spawn window considerably, you don't have to monitor a spawn non-stop the whole weekend.

    Do you want to spend time with friends or family, go outside, raid or other crazy such things during each of the ~26 spawn windows that takes place on the weekend each year? You won't get the item. The more of those ~26 spawn windows you decide I'm going to wait here and hope I get a Human Illusion, AC click, Bow of the Destroyer or whatever the more likely you are to get the item.
  11. Leerah Augur

    Epics should never require collections from rare spawns. Luxury items always should.