Pantheon

That's true, but do you want to know why?

I believe the design of each new version of EQ was flawed. The designer's egos got in the way and became more important than making an updated version of EQ with all the core fundamentals that made EQ great in the first place.

EverQuest is an amazing MMORPG. It could easily be modernized in a new version, with new graphics, new user interface that new MMOs come with, without dumbing down the gameplay of the original.

The sad fact that SOE and Daybreak utterly failed to create a new version of EQ is not the fault of the players. It rests squarely on the shoulders of the leadership. The buck stops with them. SOE was told in no uncertain terms for decades that EQ fans wanted an updated version of EQ. We didn't want them to reinvent the wheel, but they didn't listen and they failed.

The EQ community has put up with a lot over the years. Darkpaw was created to be good stewards of the EQ franchise. At some point we deserve an answer from Daybreak about the future of the franchise. Are they going to create a new EQ and attract more players, or are they going to keep making EQ and EQ2 expansions until most of us have passed on to the next life?

You are right. In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

Climbing is about the only new thing in Pantheon and it's hardly worth getting excited about.

That said, every new product needs some form of novelty and that is vitally important for MMORPGs. Pantheon doesn't have any of this. All they are doing is appealing to old school nostalgia. You have to have something NEW to offer to the gaming public or you're going to get bypassed and ignored.

Visionary Realms were rife with problems from the get go. For years the team was working remotely with rookie developers who had never worked on a MMO before. It was amateurish to say the least.

Brad McQuaid was very stubborn and set in his ways. He refused to innovate. He didn't want anything to change. I think he set Pantheon back years because he failed to update his antiquated game development production philosophy with new thinking. I urged him to created a proof of concept minimum viable product (MVP) for Pantheon but he wasn't interested. I feel his mindset was stuck in the early 2000s. This is complex stuff here and it's hard to explain in a few paragraphs.

Many would rather them invest in EQ and improve that over a game they have no plans on playing and won't give them a better experience. They could make a sequel that reaches WoW level of subscribers but that wouldn't do anything to improve EQ let alone ensure it stays around longer.

If anything was going to do for EQ it would have been Vanguard, which had some great class design and novel ideas. Lately, I tried Embers Adrift but it feels like a stale cracker. I think tastes have changed and there can never be a "new" EQ. What's the saying? "You can never go home again?"

Take the 7-8m a year of profit EQ makes and reinvest it in overhauling the game engine and updating it. You don't need a new EQ. You can update the current one to have modern graphics and features its just about the $.

When EQ sunsets, then I am done with the MMORPG genre. Never did I think when I started this game 23 years ago that it would go on for as long as it has. And at my age with my responsibilities, there is no chance I can start over at level 1 in EQ3 or Pantheon or anything similar and put forth the energy and time investment into a MMORPG like I have with Everquest.

Trust me, I have enjoyed the ride and the experience. And I still do for the time I am able to play nowadays. But for those of you who have been playing this game for 15-25 years, doesn't the thought of another 15-25 years starting from scratch just make you wince and sigh? I cannot fathom playing any game starting from scratch for another 15-25 years.

No, because you don’t have to play for 15-25 years. Cycle in and out of the game, don’t be overly addicted. It’s no different than Madden, FIFA, Pokemon annual releases. Play for awhile, leave, come back, repeat.

If I meet the right people in game, any game could be a 15-25 year game for me. If I don't meet the right people I'll still play new MMOs I just stop playing as soon as I don't enjoy it.

It's like TV, just because you like the first season of Supernatual doesn't mean you need to watch it after it turns into junk, you don't have to watch all 15 seasons of it. Or game of thrones you could just skip the last season or two maybe just end the show after the battle of the Halflings and be done with it.

But not entirely and only the "fault" of Daybreak as implied.

And when they cancel projects citing that exact thing, investing in current projects vs potential future ones, they're vilified for doing so.

And I never placed blame on the failures, I just said that multiple attempts at a sequel have been made and failed over the years, even EQ2 which did launch has a lower population then EQ1. Just because there are now new owners doesn't mean that there should be any new work on a sequel at this time. Also there is no reason to suspect that a sequel will have any impact on drawing new players to EQ1 or help improve it and those seem to be the claim as to why a sequel would be good.

Games that chase nostalgia for "not being dumbed down" risk bombing because MMORPGs evolved and nostalgia for the older times is a lot more fun than actually experiencing it. The genre has gotten better overall in my opinion, and while there may be an audience for super harsh (and tedious) design, it's not going to produce a hit when better games exist.

Also no one opinion represents "the fans." There is no consensus on what the fans want, and even then the challenge for game designers isn't making what "the fans" want; it's making things fun in ways people don't expect. What people think they want doesn't always make for a good experience.

In some ways EQ is harder now. Everything kills almost anyone in seconds. EQ was much slower paced early game, unless my memory fails me.

I was also excited for this 5+yrs ago lol. I check up on every year and still Pre-alpha, I mean come on. This is the Duke Nukem Forever of RPGs. I doubt it will ever be released. It would also have to be graphically updated again 5yrs from now, when it's done. Looks awesome, like EQ with a better graphics engine. Too bad they could just update EQs graphics.

This 100%

I bounce back and forth between WoW and EQ. I like how smooth WoWs combat is and how things flow. But I top out in the game in a couple months (even as solo play). And I enjoy it and can usually stick it out but by the end of an expansion (2 years), I'm worn out and taking a 6mo - 1yr break.

And I get the EQ itch. The difficulty, the 1000 different combat abilities/spells/AAs that you weave in and out for proper/good use. But the game is dated. Better graphics would go a long ways for me, and a little trimming/pruning as well. But that's just my personal opinion.

The game has bloated a bit, and as said where things can kill you in a single second isn't fun, especially when you just finished an expansion and are sitting in top end group gear. I understand things have to get bigger and badder to make up for our progression in strength, but something needs reigned in a little bit.

I was following Pantheon on Facebook for a long time. Today they posted a video of their facial animations. It was finally clear to me that this is a hobby / project for fun and not a serious endeavor. I quit following them today. I had considered pledging and I am glad I did not.

The idea of starting from scratch after 3-4 years made me wince and sign.

You can play FFXIV and catch up in a few months and it's a lot of fun. It's also free to play through the critically acclaimed expansion Heavensward. Starting over in a game doesn't have to be a bad thing.

The problem with Pantheon, if you watch their videos, is that they're focused too much on the bad parts of these games. Maybe after it's out for a few years and they fix all the problems EQ1 addressed years ago I'd give it a shot.

I dont know why people are still discussing this game .. its never gonna make it to a live game .. and even IF it ever does my guess is it will fall way short of everyone's expectations.. ever few years this topic comes up , for what the last 8 years now ? reminds me of EQ3 . where is EQ3 now oh wait there isnt one .. and there never will be..

FFXIV is really quite a remarkable situation.

For those that don't know, the game absolutely bombed and was a disaster. They brought in someone who essentially said forget all of this, it's time to start over. They scrapped the original game (and even made this part of the lore of the reborn version) and the game's still going on. If I wasn't playing EQ that's the game I'd be playing.

I do wish Pantheon well, but SE took a huge gamble with FFXIV saying "sorry" and scrapping the entire game and starting over, and it paid off.

I never said I don't enjoy EQ. Not sure where you got that assumption from. I even said I have enjoyed the journey, this game has brought me a lot of fun.

However, if I start something that I enjoy... I like to see it through the end. And my point is I cannot see myself starting over at level 1 in a new MMORPG. The one thing I have learned about this genre is that there is no end until it sunsets. This isn't a game like Skyrim where you know there is an actual end, and you go at your own pace. And while I know this now, back in 2000 I thought this would be a several year journey. Not several decades.

This smells like wishful thinking. How much you in for?