Pally Vs SK in (Velious, Luclin, PoP)

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Abyssmul, Sep 16, 2020.

  1. Abyssmul New Member

    I know solo the SK wins. I Know group and undead the pally wins. My question is raids and duo.

    Can I get your guys thoughts on pally vs Sk in raids for those xpacs?

    And your vote on which duo is better? SK + Shaman, or Pally + DPS (Enchanter or necro or mage).

    Thanks again for any advice.
  2. Wyre Wintermute I'm just a butterly dreaming I'm a man

    SK's are almost always designated for multiple add pickup and/or kiting.

    Pallies generally take the role(s) of ramp tanking and single off-tank.

    Both can handle/help with trash clears.

    Pallies also help with group healing, in AoE-intensive fights, as well as curing.

    As for what duo is better? It totally depends on what you want to do. IMHO, SK + SHM will be more versatile, where Pally + ENC will stand out as it's own powerhouse/ Not sure that Necro or Mage fit in there. Now.. Mage + Cleric or Shaman, that's a whole other ball of wax.
    Kattria Minx and Bullsnooze like this.
  3. Tanamil New Member

    Paladins are rampage tank gods
  4. Mrjon3s Augur

    Paladins just keep getting better. They start off weaker but as the servers go on they get stronger and stronger.
  5. Trance Journeyman

    For what it's worth I duo Paladin / Enchanter and have an extremely high level of success with it, there isn't much content I can't duo.

    I've done Enchanter + Cleric / Shaman / Druid and I find pally to be just as good as druid/sham in most situations outside of double charm, and a lot of fun.

    This probably requires a very well geared paladin and a lot of experience with charm shenanigans however.
    Wyre Wintermute likes this.
  6. Zealot1340 New Member

    SK + Shaman is one of the most widely utilized two box combos for a reason. It's a better duo than Pal + Shaman due to the dps advantage of SKs. That doesn't really change in those expansions but Pal + Shaman is still viable. Neither should have difficulty holding agro in raid or group settings.

    As for raiding, they both have their advantages. SKs with the right focus effects and knowledge of the class can parse quite well on bosses where they aren't needed for tanking. Paladins are the best rampage tanks and can add a lot of group healing and utility in certain encounters where they are needed.
  7. Bullsnooze Augur

    With all things equal and in those 3 expansions? SHD + SHM is your best duo hands down. You will be able to get stuff done with the other pairs, some will even output more damage, but in one way or another you will find overlap or some area of gameplay not covered.

    For example,
    Pally + Mage/Necro will not have slow or strong melee buffs.
    Pally + Enchanter is best played with an Enchanter main because of charm. Eventually, you'll wonder why you didn't go pure Priest healer later.
  8. TLP Addict Augur

    Shadowknights don't really offer a lot of raid utility in the early expacs, anything they can do some other class/s can do just as well.

    Monks, and later Bards do most of the pulling.

    Warriors do the majority of raid tanking. Paladins tend to be used as RT especially once they get the DA hammer. Lots of classes can handle tanking trash.

    Lots of classes can kite.

    Paladins can support their groups with healing and curing while the SK is mostly just another DPS and occasional offtank on raids.

    That said they are extremely powerful in solo, duo and group situations. They are a popular class, however a raid typically has more than they need and SK often ends up as one of the first classes to hit "Closed" status. In Kunark they are strong DPS though, while Paladins are still somewhat weak. So now is the time to level one and try to get a raid spot if it's what you really want to do.

    If you want a less played class and feel slightly more useful on raids (Velious and beyond) make a Paladin.
    Xyroff-cazic., Ayoheee and Bullsnooze like this.
  9. Trance Journeyman

    Just wanted to tack on that I verily disagree with this. I thought this might be the case but I have superior healing and almost 3k mana, there are basically no scenarios outside of wishing I had bind that I would want my paladin to be a shaman or druid (and i've played both of those). And only a few where I'd rather have a cleric.

    The pally heals just as well as druid/shaman and lets face it you're healing the enchanter not the pet, it isn't that hard. The paladin adds more hp/ac to the enchanter than druid and shaman both, heals just as well, brings 3 stuns and can instantly take the charm pet off the chanter when it breaks with taunt. The big loss is C-Heal and bind. You get around C-Heal by using out of combat regen /mem blur on pet.

    I tried main boxing both and I find its much simpler to box the enchanter and target through paladin. With this duo I can take every 6 man content i've tried. Don't forget you can also LoH the pet in a pickle.

    At the end of the day you are comparing:

    Cleric: Most HP/AC, stuns, complete heal and quick heals, big rez.
    Paladin: Second most HP/AC, stuns, lay hands, tanking, mediocre heals, ability to kill lower level mobs without a charm pet or spells, 90% rez.
    Druid: Third most hp/ac, snare, double charm, ports, mediocre heals, some crappy dps.
    Shaman: crappy hp/ac buffs, malo, good dots.
  10. Bullsnooze Augur

    I respect the disagreement. :D

    Seems like you're referencing your duo in Classic with a splash of Kunark? I'm curious how you'll find the pair in Luclin and PoP.

    I guess the reason why I say you'd wish for a Priest class (generally speaking) is because all their abilities can be tied to a macro. Which means there is no need to position them for additional damage or support. With a Paladin you will have more work because they are actually a melee class before caster. Moreover, a geared Enchanter will rarely ever need to stun their charm pet because it'll become near second nature to recharm when you have your self runes. This is all subjective to your playstyle of course - I tend to be on the lazier side, so the less I have to do on the box class the better lol. :)
  11. ForumBoss Augur

    Paladins get group heals in velious, making them good for raids. Slay undead is luclin, as are the low level stuns and DA hammer for ramp tanking. Paladins group heal and tank adds on raids. The few paladin specific items may also go for less dkp than shd gear, since they're a dime a dozen. I'd say they're fun, but a little busy if boxing. Paladins are powerful soloers and in duos, but very slow to kill non undead things.

    Sk are constantly kiting in GoD raids and beyond, but you didnt ask about that. Before, you'll mostly aggo adds and dps as an sk. They bring less utility in those expansions, but make easier group tanks due to instant aggro (luclin) and ae aggro (oow).
  12. PipotheAFILADOR New Member

    In luclin paladins get their role of ramp tank thanks to.the DA hammer.

    But it's often overlooked that in pop they get one of the most powerful spells in the expansion with their FIXED duration super fast casting root.

    We used paladins to pull fennin script, coirnav script, rathe council. Also as often our only CC during phase 1/2 of time and Cc on the zek that splits, inny.

    As a duo. Sks are way better as they bring a ton more dps.
    Aneia likes this.
  13. Bullsnooze Augur

    I just noticed something

    Druid damage is actually very good. They are a hidden gem at the moment as no group should be without one IMO and no Enchanter either. They also later begin providing debuffs (Ro Line) that work hand-in-hand with slow when it begins to 'partially land'.

    There's more, but I don't want to talk up Druids to where the developers might want to balance them. :)
  14. Darkhain Elder

    This is a misconception, no they don't, they can burst once in a while with a disc that's it, the dps difference between pally and sk comes way later with each xpacs, otherwise in the early era they are the exact same.
    Bullsnooze likes this.
  15. Bullsnooze Augur

    If I were to pick one for raiding I think I would go Shadow Knight as I'm partial to the playstyle. It's roles are off tanking (trash), damage, and light pulling. Paladins will also off tank, but they will then focus on rampage damage and healing.

    Really comes down to which of these responsibilities you want in a raid.
  16. Loze Elder

    Tossing lifetaps in between slow 2 hander swings in those early Xpacs will put an SK at the top of a lot of parses. Unless it's against undead, an SK will out damage a pally all day long. Paladins have their uses. They provide a lot of utility. SKs are a very selfish class. Their lifetaps and lifetap procs mean you don't have to change targets to heal yourself.

    SKs can't heal, rez, or buff. They have the same AC bonus over cap as a Paladin, wear the same type of armor, and have the same skills. Where an SK stands out, in my opinion, is the lifetaps and the AOE aggro spells. In later expansions, you'll heal yourself for considerable amounts of damage just by swinging your sword. The 2.0 click is something you'll use til the end of time.
  17. Healiez Augur

    Pallies do make great ramp tanks cause of the DA hammer. They are also great group utility through their group heals and cure.

    SK's can actually put up competitive DPS for a while. Their passive healing starts to get insane, multiple lifetap procs, all capable of critting and crit healing, lifetaps, and the highest single target and AoE agro generation in the game for a good while. The SK 2.0 means unless they are tanking raid mobs they wont need heals until it drops.

    My last guild actually used SK's as the raid main tank through omens (except on a select few fights that absolutely required defensive).
  18. Healiez Augur

    Hate to break it to you, but its not a misconception.

    Anyone who has raided, or can simply read a spell list can see that SK's will do vastly superior DPS when compared to a pally.

    Paladins (aside from undead) have nearly zero offensive damage spells. SK's have dots, and lifetaps most of which are nearly unresistable.

    You can go ahead and believe the paladin just swinging his sword will do the same dps as an sk who...

    Will keep dots rolling on the target (they are a dps gain for a while), Will weave in 400 damage lifetaps between swings, and (assuming the mob doesnt AoE) will have a hasted DWing pet doing some dps as well. this is at 60, and the disparity only gets bigger. Oh yah, they also have their lifetap proc, which again is nearly unresistable.

    Even against an undead mob, when the pally used holy forge, the sk will match or be only slightly below them ESPECIALLY if the SK also disc's.

    I am not saying paladins are bad, I love the class. Personally I think good paladins bring WAY more to a raid then good SK's.
  19. Xhartor Augur

    The hate tap line also gives SK higher white damage from melee weapons.
  20. Healiez Augur

    During the era he is talking about, (velious, luclin, pop) you should be using an SK as main tank for all but a few fights.

    AoW, Emp, Vyemm, Time RZ, etc. Everything else SK wins out on if you have the clerics for it (just requires a slightly faster, tighter CH rot). The amount of threat an SK puts out means that dps dont have to hold back at all...

    Made a bet one time raid that I tanked as an SK, that if a DPS could rip agro off me(without taunt) I would give them a krono,No krono were handed out that night.

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