Pally Tanking

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by crazedhammer71, May 20, 2020.

  1. Velerin Journeyman

    SKs can be fun to pop unholy and chain life taps. You’ll be in top 5 on some fights. But beyond that you’re not a dps. In raids you’ll put out a bit more dps with your dots but not that much higher than palys. In groups you won’t be dotting do your dps will be about same except a bit of taps here and there.
  2. kamikazeheart Elder

    I had a fairly easy time leveling a paladin on Ragefire back in the day. They really shine in Unrest, MM, and LGuk, which is like the top 3 places to group. You could easily get to 50 in those 3 zones. (LGuk you basically can’t avoid in Classic). Honestly if you enjoy the lore and flavor of Paladin, that’s going to go a long way in your enjoyment of the class. It did for me. I loved being able to toss out heals and rezes and the occasional buff to lowbies.
  3. Wulfhere Augur

    A pleasant surprise.

    I'm finding that a low level Paladin gets decent hate from casting, of all things, Yaulp.

    Starting at level 9 Yaulp is on par with Flash of Light even. Two reasons for this I can think of: the decades old nerf to debuff aggro (for Enchanters and Shaman), and the fixes to beneficial witness check last year.

    My current snap aggro (say at level 15) is in-order:

    /taunt
    /bash
    /disarm
    /cast yaulp
    /cast flash of light

    Often times just casting Yaulp on cool down gets and keeps all un-targeted mobs on me over the fight time. Without it, a bard singing Chords of Dissonance (PBAE) will hold aggro over me for example. It's quite noticeable going from level 8 to level 9 and add Yaulp to the mix.

    ps: my paladin never /begs but that could be added too after /disarm
  4. Gearrwin Lorekeeper

    I'm playing a paladin for the first time and not really finding it true. At level 16 with a boxed druid I can't keep agro off the druid after casting flame lick and stinging swarm. I need those for dps because the pally does next to no damage using summoned hammer. I'm not sure if I will continue this 2 box much longer.
  5. Wulfhere Augur

    Yours is a very different scenario. Bards have a very low aggro cap that no other class gets. I'm finding that Yaulp is exceeding that cap which was a surprise to me.

    If you mean you are debuffing and dotting adds that the tank hasn't targeted, then yes I expect your druid will get beat up. Flame Lick (line) is still relatively high aggro. Rangers use it to tank and they have better aggro (at this level range) then any TLP tank class imo. It wouldn't surprise me if your combo of dots exceeds war/sk/pal single target aggro even on the mob the tank is targeting. A ranger can top your druid though.

    For DPS options, consider keeping thorn DS on the paladin instead of FL on adds.

    ps: the only melee class that does decent damage pre-level 20 is the monk. Melee damage is capped until then and nobody has good weapons or enough skill in things like double attack and dual-wield. Hand in there until about level 24 before deciding on a change.
    Elsewhere likes this.
  6. Elsewhere Elder

    That is like saying "I cant keep aggro off the Wizard who does his biggest nuke while mob is at 99.5% health"

    This is not a Pally issue, that is a Flame Lick issue. 2-3 casts of flame lick is what Rangers use to keep mobs stuck to them like glue, what do you expect to happen when non-tanking classes use it?

    Add to the fact, our main aggro tool at low levels (Flash of Light) we CANNOT use as a pull spell (unlike Rangers FL or SK's various spells), because due to it acting as a fear if no melee range players nearby, means we essentially have no pull spell until our first stun at 28(?) or 30(?)
  7. Wulfhere Augur

    Well, we do have Ward Undead to pull undead mobs. Root for splitting mobs. Otherwise, archery is a paladin pulling tool (same as for warriors) until Stun arrives. Besides, a paladin is a fighter that charges into the thick of things. Range attacks are cowardly. Stick your nose in. :)
  8. Leifer1969 New Member

    I find this to be the case as well. On undead you can throw the baby nuke in there and that seems to pull better aggro than yaulp or fol if you can find yourself in those situations. Keeping aggro from bards seems to be the toughest job at very low levels, but they do fine tanking themselves most of the time in classic.
    Wulfhere likes this.
  9. Loze Elder

    As someone that has played a bard and an SK since kunark launched on live as well as on a couple TLPs, I'll tell you that early on, a bard generates an incredible amount of aggro. Later, their nerf hurts them in that field, but good luck until you have darkness at 11 and the mana pool to spam it constantly.
    SK's can make the top of the parse in classic, and in PoR, on a burn fight, With a bard in group, I can still make top 10 on parses, though nowhere near the top.
    The difference between Pally and SK? Pallys tend to be very arrogant, especially the good ones (lol). They don't seen to think that SKs are very good at tanking, even though we get the same AC caps and defensive AA's and pure aggro spells. I just find it funny. It's pretty universal in my experience lol.
    In reality though, an SK is a selfish tank. They have a few spells that benefit the group (AC, ATK, HP/Mana, STA taps), they can aggro buff a tank, some crappy cold resist buffs, cure 4 disease counters, that's about it. Their self buff and AA lifetap procs are pretty amazeballs though. Definitely adds to their survivability as tanks. The pet, while a joke, is actually pretty useful, as they can shield you, providing a few more HPs. Snares and FD, make you one hell of a single pulling class on anything that is snareable (albeit a little slow, so good luck in today's gotta have it now game). A ton of utility, king of aggro, and a great group/raid trash tank. I love the class.
    Paladins are the goody goody equivalent. They can buff, and heal groups, rez, root, paci, and tank as well as an SK. Instead of a lifetap proc, though, they can stun which reduces the amount of incoming damage instead of increasing the amount of random healing that an SK does. Maybe not the king of aggro, but definitely the prince. They're no slouch. Tanks as well as a similarly geared SK in group/raid trash situation, but you won't see them on very many parses, unless undead are involved.
    Both overlap a bit in tanking utility, but overall utility is much different. If you want the most utility, go Paladin. If you have more fun seeing your name on parses, go SK. Either way, I know most people that swear by Paladin would never go SK and most that swear by SK wouldn't go Paladin (myself included, damn goody two-shoes).
  10. Wulfhere Augur

    Funny that as I've posted the opposite in the forums in years past. I found that the paladin class becomes more selfish then the SK starts out to be. As SK get bard-like group buffs (via taps), becoming more group friendly, the paladin (mini-cleric) buffs become unwanted and unneeded outside of Brells. A paladin doesn't even want their OWN buffs after a certain point.

    At least in EQ, both knight classes end up being pretty self-centered, which speaks to their in-game survival, if not their lore. Oh well.

    I think this phenom is a big reason why SK is more popular then Paladin for many players. The SK has received much more creative and favorable treatment from the Devs over the years. Paladins struggle even on little mechanics like spell casting times.
  11. Kiaro Augur

    1. Many folks are going to push on the "SKs are better" - they're not, just in how fast mobs die in modern TLPs people tend to focus on DPS over utility.
    2. Paladins are very strong even in classic, capable of soloing mobs near their level without much issue, it just takes a VERY long time. Good example of this, I solo'd my entire class armor set on Phinigel as a paladin between 35-45. It wasn't easy, it wasn't quick, but you can do it.
    3. We're pretty much THE BEST group puller in classic, combining root with lull spells you can break up mobs as they come in, stop casters from being nasty starting at level 28 (stun is very overlooked).
    4. With clarity you won't need a primary healer in a group at most camps.
    5. Having an extra res around is never a bad thing, infact that is what I spent many raids doing - ressing people from eating DTs, leaving the clerics to heal.

    In Kunark not much changes, beyond the fact that we actually get weaker compared to the other 2 tanks, this being that Paladin class armor has no actual HP on it, however I was still capable of tanking VP dragons without issue by stacking AC through the roof.

    Velious again - SK and War get some nifty things that really set them aside damage and health wise, you start to close the gap in HP though, you get your group buff here.

    Luclin - New spells and AAs turn things around - Paladins see a HUGE gain from the content added, low level stuns give you a large bucket of aggro tools that won't OOM you even without Clarity, healing focuses just expand on what you're capable of, however in raids, you'll be rampage tank or curing. Not that Paladins are not 100% capable of tanking most any raidboss in here (Tanked Seru without much problem)

    PoP and beyond - you'll have solidified your role as a rampage tank, and your group heals just get stronger. The selection of stuns and aggro tools at your disposal makes you an enchanters best friend, as you can slam a broken charm pet with an 8 second stun before its even moved an inch, your root game becomes unmatched (to root the rathe council my guild used 2 paladins and that was it, we could self heal through the AEs and keep 3 targets each rooted)

    Paladins are a solid class, but start slow, get slower for 2 expansions then take off very well, you're never going to do good damage, even Slay undead will put you on par with a Warrior at least vs undead targets, and you're always going to be leagues behind a SK for DPS. You're not going to be flashy, or fancy, but its a good class that is often overlooked. The capabilities of a paladin crap allover the group utility of a SK (like, ooo an attack tap, let me block that buff so I'm not capped)
    Loze likes this.
  12. Loze Elder

    Let me qualify this by saying that I haven't played on live as a raider in a VERY long time, but I've had plenty of times where we didn't have a cleric and relied on a pally's HP buffs. And give me Brell's any day of the week.
  13. Accipiter Old Timer


    For sure. Especially if they are using regen, slow, and snare songs.
  14. Loze Elder

    See, I told you, they're all arrogant! :)

    Though I will wholeheartedly disagree here. Bard is the best group puller in classic. Lull, speed, snare, and the ability to CC your way out of a failed pull, or just run off the aggro in a big enough zone.