Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by crazedhammer71, May 20, 2020.
Paladin are the supreme group tanks in EQ. They get better every expac as well.
Agreed. Ive never played a pally, but i am almost certain that the right player would be able to MT over SK and Warrior using a pally.
Sigil <flexs> lol
As far as just plain tanking goes, either/or is fine and all other things being equal there isn't much difference. However, there is much more than plain old tanking in the game for the Knights.
A really really good player playing a paladin > a really really good player playing an SK. An average paladin < an average SK. A bad paladin is probably worse than a bad any other class you can name, while a bad SK can still be useful.
The point is, a highly superb player (I'm not one, and I hardly ever see any on TLP's) will make his/her paladin the most amazing class in the game - especially post classic. I've seen these on Live over the years (played since Nov. '99). I think it is quite right to place SK's over Paladins in overall usefulness for 90%+ of the player population. Fun is subjective, but for a lot of players fun = power, and I think most of the time for most of the people, that means SK's would be more fun to play.
I wouldn't take a bad either one in raids. Knights on raids have to be twitchy. You have to react fast to picking up adds, kiting, offtanking, whatever is needed. A low skill paladin could be used to ramp tank (maybe, he still has to be able to set ramp initially) but beyond that, if you are slow and can't react or can't follow directions well to pick up your assigned offtank mob, you aren't much good to the raid on either class. Nothing is more frustrating as a RL than knowing you've got knights that you can't rely on to do their job.
If you are bad at EQ, go play a wizard or something easier. Even a warrior would be way better than a knight, I can come up with roles for bad warriors on most raids.
Remember that outspoken Pally a few years ago here pushing Flash of Light, even on raids? Was a fun thread.
I remember that thread well. I think that guy raided with me too. It was right around that same time and some new paladin in our guild on Phinigel sent Dracoliche running straight across the zone into all the mobs we hadn't cleared yet. Still insisted flash of light was ok even after he wiped us using it.
In classic at least, you can assign a lower skill paladin to babysit enchanter pets on dragons/hate/fear and sky (don't even need to hit attack). DT's in Sky are pretty easy too - one fairly timed taunt should do it. Otherwise yeah, knights have to be at the keyboard full time with full attention and react to anything at all that might go sideways.
Fun for me is winning. I wouldn't care if my job was to fluff the main tank before a boss to get him ready. I played a Necro during Luclin and PoP in era and my job on most big fights was to feed mana to the casters. I never complained or got bored. I enjoyed being part of a team that was clearing content every week and moving on to new content.
Other people have done a great job describing the palie "arc". I'll do a TLDR:
1. Palies like all tanks are incredibly gear dependent. That makes them a really tough class for a first character on a new server. You will suck, and suck really badly most of your leveling curve in classic.
2. Combine issue #1 with the fact that palies just aren't a very well balanced class pre at least Velious and beyond. This is a TLP, a very large portion of your time is going to be spent with a class that is sub par in the grand scheme of things, difficult to gear early on, and sort of a meme.
IF.....you are in it for the long haul, by all means. I LOVE palies, one of my favorite combos I play has a palie main, but for early expansions, and especially on a fresh server it's.....fairly frustrating.
I will say, there is nothing more satisfying than a dorf palie, with the old character model, jumping in the air and doing the dorf roll to some sort of macro'd emote about being righteous and wanting beer etc. Palies have a special place in my heart in EQ, they are sort of underdogs....which fits the class lore and the role playing aspect of the class pretty well.
TLDR: Palies aren't a great short term class, but they are really endearing (especially dorfs).
I gotta give a lot of credit to this post. So many people who play a class love to come here and talk about how awesome that class can be (/cough Druids...) but don't want to be realistic about what that class actually is. This post listed some good points but was very spot on with many of the negatives to playing a Paladin. Great post!
I concur with almost all of it. The simple truth of a Paladin is that unfortunately in almost all situations a Shadowknight is just better. Sure there are some niche areas where a Paladin can shine, but those areas are few and far between and overall a SK is just better.
That doesn't mean Paladins are not useful in their own right, but they just are not THAT useful.
Honestly if you want to be "unique" or just have a love for the lore of a Paladin then go Paladin, but otherwise, they just are not that great.
My best experience with knights has always been with a paladin who knows how to root, a good paladin that roots and stuns can basically play the roll of CC and tank at once...good in zones like karnors castle that are considered outdoor zones, they also lessen downtime nicely with their heals, almost every SK ive grouped with on p99 and TLP has just been some trash i dont know why, they pull too much thinking they are a monk and then their FD fails and they splat, they are all ogres/sk's so they get stuck everywhere ... oof, usually have better experiences with PAL because they are just better out of the box tanks
I have played both pallie and sk alot even at high level. I think people over rate SKs and underrate Pallies in a nutshell. They both have their uses. On raids as a Pallie, I O-T, heal, cure, group heal, rez people, raid buff. As an SK, I just O-T sometimes pull. My SK does higher dps but that doesn't seem off set all the things my pallie does, like keep my group up during AoEs and the other stuff. I like said people overrate SKs and Underrate Pallies. That is just my observation from playing both classes extensively.
ps. Sounds like Trevelon has never played pallie before. To make a statement that says SKs are better in most situations over a pallie tells me this. It is actually the other way around.
Blah blah blah blah. Let me tell you why paladins are the "most fun". Slog it out till Luclin. You are a tank with tank gear. You get the fastest horse. Heals. Lay on Hands. Divine Aura. If you can't wreck an entire zone with that arsenal, why are you even playing a MMORPG?
I would wait until TSS opens before starting a Pally.
I have mained a pally throughout the entirety of Classic and Kunark on Vulak...Then Again from PoP through PoR...
I am not saying that Paladins dont have their uses, I am just saying that overall SK's are more useful IMO. You're of course free to disagree, but if you took an overall poll of EQ players, most would say SK > Paladin in most ways, especially early EQ expansions. I know in later expansions that gap lowers a bit as GoD+ the heals, especially group heals, get better.
But again, theres a reason why my Paladin ran in circles in Tacvi and the Sks were actually doing stuff...
There's a reason why most guilds have more slots available for Sks than Paladins for their raids...
Only reason to bring a paladin to raid is lay on hands for OOPSIE moments or ramp.
So many misinformation...
DPS between pally and SK is almost the same from classic to velious, only difference, SK can burst.
SK will growth in power, in the DPS department over each xpac, but still the gap won't be huge, until way later.
Tanking wise, in group setup, both are good (better than war), but pally will always be better because of healing and other utilities (pacify until 55, stuns aka best tanking ability, 0.5s cast root in PoP, rez and more). While SK doesn't bring much to a group.
In raid, pally are always better choice to tank (they are better tanks than SK, untill lots of xpacs, for many reasons). SK will stick being a sub dps tank, eventually kitting or tanking some adds. Ofc pally won't be MT (War always a better choice, untill later on eventually).
Both are viable and fun to play but different gameplay, tbh.
Is this accurate? I'm considering rolling Pally but I was planning on rolling SK because I thought their DPS would be significantly better, even in Classic. I thought harm touch would widen the gap a lot in raids.
Simply put a well played SK can be in the top of a DPS parse, a well played Paladin will be around bards on that parse.
No their DPS cant be compared, they are day and night.
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