Pally healing

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Livvy_CT, Feb 3, 2021.

  1. Livvy_CT Elder

    I’m curious to hear some input from other raiding pallys, what kind of aggro are you receiving from passive heals? I personally immediately have aggro on adds as soon as they spawn due to constant casting.

    How are you dealing with that aggro? Count on your fellow tanks to pick up the adds? Use less of your aggro spells like harmonious?

    I would like to see some other views and if anyone else else has issues?
  2. Chaosflux Augur

    Heal aggro from anything other than Valiant is next to nothing. Tell your other tanks to pay attention and actually hit buttons.

    I havent gotten aggro solely from heal aggro since pre nerf Splash of Sanctification.

    Even rune procs, dont feel like they do much anymore, not sure why you are having that issue, if itsnreally a big deal (it shouldnt be this sounds like a play skill issue from the other tanks) turn bold attacks off.
  3. Livvy_CT Elder

    I suspect it had to do with valiant, and hit protective instead and still pick up everything. You’re right tho, valiant is like a magnetic for adds when I cast it on the boss when adds are up
  4. Livvy_CT Elder

    I hesitate to turn bold attacks off, I’m back up tank on boss or on add duty, I want to be able to snap aggro immediately if I need too, I guess turning it back on isn’t a big deal, but it’s time that an add is eating a dps or priest.
  5. Chaosflux Augur

    Valiant if twincast is 6896 aggro, of its not half that

    Thats not even 1/3 of Explosion or the Stormwind blade (think thats the name of the warrior one)

    If you are getting aggro from a single valiant thats... something, explosion and the blade dealio are instant cast, if you were to pull aggro for a fraction of a second they should be more than capable of peeling it off with a single keystroke.
    Maedhros likes this.
  6. Wulfhere Augur

    You're quoting Rk.3 hate mod, but this is a witness check. So each aggro NPC (witness) hates you for healing that group member. It's more like (3448 hate mod + 15731 heal) = 19179 base hate per NPC for a single cast. The NPC you cast on gets another 16908 base hate besides.

    During add events where I'm casting Valiant, I prepare to take hits by activating a tanking disc or shield flash before casting Valiant. Mobs do come for you (which is good), unless an SK or WAR is really trying to grab them all. Since the witness check patch, Valiant is a good if not great spell finally (thanks devs).

    Edited: fixed the math
  7. Szilent Augur

    Valiant isn't a group heal, there's no 6x multiplier
    Wulfhere likes this.
  8. Livvy_CT Elder

    I use valiant to build aggro on the boss when I’m second or third in the rotation, so I cast it alot. The mobs aggro seems to be link to the boss, because they aren’t anywhere near me or in view of me and aggro when a heal hits when they pop
  9. Wulfhere Augur

    What you describe is that you are healing the main tank, so any NPC that witnesses that tank is hating you more. Raid adds tend to auto aggro on the main tank when they spawn so they will come looking for you after Valiant is cast.
    Ron Ronaldson likes this.
  10. Livvy_CT Elder

    Yeah that makes sense
  11. Maedhros High King

    This is 100% the fault of whoever is an add tank in your guild. Also, given your obvious success at pulling adds, why the hell is your raid leader not utilizing you as an add tank and put someone else on the MTO?
    Whole lot of problems going on with your raids if you are a paladin back up on a boss in the first place, and if other tanks are not picking up adds in the second place.
    In a guild with competent tanks, you should struggle to pull agro off SKs to get whatever add mob youre assigned to as a paladin.

    As a stop gap until you can get your raid leader to figure this mess out, use other pass through heals instead of valiant while you are back up tank. You can easily maintain number 2 on agro with selective use of Beacon and Hallowed Lodestar while no adds are in range, and by simply casting stuns or nukes or whatever you have loaded and watching the agro number.
  12. Livvy_CT Elder

    I don’t see a problem with me being the back up tank, our tanks are mostly good, just some are lazy and I don’t like getting steam rolled by an add when I’m not on add duty. I’ll play with other heals and see how that goes. I pride myself on healing while I tank and hold aggro, etc etc.
  13. Chaosflux Augur

    No heal aggro doesnt work like that and hasnt for along time

    You get a chance at a minimal llike 100 to 200 for the heal and then 3448 for the hate mod (guaranteed)

    Heal aggro doesnt generate 1 hate per heal, and hasnt in awhile.
  14. Chaosflux Augur

    I am being hyperbolic with the 100 to 200 the heal itself is a miniscule amount of aggro and 98% of the aggro from the heal is the hate mod itself, this is easily testable on mobs with no special aggro rules (Bodytype 1 would be a good one to test against) with another tank.

    If it were as large as you are asserting, there would be a large visible bump to hate everytime you cast, 19k hate before bold attacks and mask mods is quite abit.
  15. Wulfhere Augur

    You aren't playing on live mate and SK and WAR are above and beyond 19k hate AE. It is was it is.
  16. Chaosflux Augur

    Even if i am on Miragul

    My valiant uses the same SPA and follows the same aggro rules, and if it were producing massively more than its hate mod given I cast it on recast like its a religion on most raids, and given just glancing at cast parses and comparing casts of other tanks aggro stuff, id be tanking everything.

    The 98 and 105 valiant definitely dont work the way you are describing even on my live paladin. If i am wrong about the 115 one, its possible, but it does have the same spell data, just larger numbers.
  17. Wulfhere Augur

    What do you mean? The mechanics of the spell line are consistent across levels.

    In what way do you think Valiant works differently?
  18. Chaosflux Augur


    Hate % mods off on both characters

    Level 105 paladin
    Level 105 sk

    Paladin and SK tag 2 mobs with TOR disease clicky

    SK casts single level 81 terror on each mob
    I cast Stance to boost my HP (so i have some thing to heal)
    I cast VD on 1 mob

    VD hate mod is 2000, heal portion is 5500
    SK terror is 5200

    I pull aggro only on the mob i have targetted that gets with the main increase hate from initial VD, 2nd mob i dont have targetted bumps upt 47% hate.

    If it worked the way you are proposing i should not only take aggro on the 1st mob, but also the 2nd (1900 + 5500 > 5200 from the terror)
  19. Chaosflux Augur

    So what i am saying is that the heal itself doesnt provide a 1 to 1 hate to heal relationship like you are proposing, it provides something, but not nearly 1 to 1 ratio.

    However the hate mod does give its full value everytime.

    And yes i know its a witness check so its not a guaeanteed fire, but if I blur the mobs and repeat this a number of times, ill get roughly the same results, with very rarely ill end up higher then 47% but i wont ever take aggro completely on the 2nd mob.
  20. Wulfhere Augur

    Okay, but we don't have any current numbers on healing +hate caps although we all agree they do exist.

    81 Rk.3 terror spell is 5911 base hate.
    98 Rk.3 valiant heal spell is (5316 + 1954 mod = 7270) witness base hate.

    So 47% of 5911 is 2778. That implies that Valiant Heal portion is (2778 - 1954) = 824 heal hate.

    If the cap is a percentage then that's roughly a 15% hate cap on heals. To me this is an important point to bring up again since the Valiant Heal spell data was nerfed during the witness check patch (to reduce its total hate). If the dev did not take into account this cap then maybe Valiant Heal deserves to have its higher hate mod reinstated.