Paladin is awesome, no problem tanking anything on raids, I love the ability to heal in a pinch. I wouldn’t trade my unicorn for a gross nightmare!
Woe is me! Population size has just as much to do with class role as it does with class effectiveness. Paladins are a lower dps tank and thats the sole factor behind a smaller population. Forced with a choice, people are more likely to go with damage over healing, and thats nothing new in MMO's. As others have pointed out, just about any raid roster will try to make room for a decent paladin. And that, if I can borrow a phrase, "is not by some magic coincidence".
To explain further, when a tank that is far from complete in their gear, augs and aa dies, is it the toons fault or the player? When I evaluate a tank app, I try to keep their gear, augs and aa into consideration when I judge their performance. It amounts to guesswork. The player will always say "no I really am good, I am just dying because I am undergeared". "I really am good at agro, I just need to finish my AA". The only way to really evaluate a tank is when you take out the variables. So a maxxed out toon is much easier to find out if they are any good or not.
Maybe you're new. I remember in COTF reading the threads about SK's quitting because they had no role and were ineffective. Guilds still recruited SK's, but that did not mean that they were not lagging behind the other tank classes. Paladins are the least dps of the tanks. Paladin agro is the worst of the tanks. Paladin defensive discs and abilities are handicapped by their insistence on utilizing stun effects that simply do not work on any significant raid content. Its gotten better since ROS came out, but the TDS through EOK era was terrible for paladins and our population numbers were affected by that time and are going to be slow to recover. Just as chanters are quitting in droves right now after years of repeated nerfs and having no clear class definition. The fact that guilds are recruiting good paladins only further illustrates the point that they are hard to find because years of impotence have reduced our population so much.
Strongly disagree on nearly all of your assertions. In pretty much any game, not just MMORPG, class popularity is highly predicated upon balance. If Paladins become flavor of the year class starting beta, you will see numbers raise up on raid rosters and group game. Feel free to look at any class in EQ that has enjoyed this status. Especially those that have enjoyed it for extremely lengthy durations. As has been stated, Paladins were last a flavor of the month class during early CoTF. I hope you realize the other two tanks flavor of the month periods? I’m sure you do, being an SK main and all Just about any raid roster will make room for a “decent” Warrior or Cleric depending on what that roster constitutes as “decent” for them. Not sure what point you feel this illustrates. If you really feel a “decent” Paladin will march on in a raid force over those classes, or a slew of others, fair enough lol. If you were saying good Paladin perhaps I’d understand your logic. If you’re talking about a lower populated class, then of course it will be more difficult to run into good-great tier players.
To the OP: Play what you enjoy, like what has been already said, all 3 tank classes are in a good to decent position, paladin probably has the highest learning curve though. To mmats: Paladins add GREAT versatility to the raid game, but some of their abilities have lagged behind in power (splash). If people cry about a 90% rez they probably shouldn't be into competitive raiding. The 2 battle rez abilities (counting the OMM rez stick) make it easy to cycle corpses and battle rez while tanking, leaving the clerics free to continue to heal those tanks that are alive. I can tell you from a guild leader and raid leader perspective, 1 tank group looks like this: War x2, Cleric x2, Paladin x1, SK x1 and we run tank heavy so there is some jostling of tanks. The benefits: Charge, SK epic, Group armor of the inquisitor, pal 1st spire, cleric auras, divine arb/cleric epic, etc etc.... Each tank has it's role and I'll agree with Maedhros on the need for more than dps check as a raid mechanic. Tank switches like in Wither/Decay from physicality as an example. I think tomb rot was an attempt at tank switches but most tanks can power through rank 1. SKs do more than kite...thanks to reaver's bargain they stand up mobs in nasty auras as well. Bottom line: Enjoy the game, if you put the time in, any of the tank/knight classes will be able to perform the role of "tank".
You're a special boy aren't you? Posting pictures of suicidal people makes you very cool and edgy. I'm still waiting for real thought to enter any of your posts as it will mark a personal forum first for you. Show me a successful guild with a paladin to SK ratio of 3:1. If you are saying guilds are recruiting paladins over SK at a ratio of 3:1 then its clear you do not understand the concept of supply and demand. I'd love to see the numbers for paladin vs SK new toon creation in the last 2 years. Maybe we will get the 3:1 ratio but I doubt it, more like 8:1 in favor of SK. See I can make up numbers too.
You still dont get it. What did I say? All things being equal (i.e. skill and availability), guilds will choose paladins at a higher ratio than sk if given the choice. You cant argue with that, period.
I guess your evaluation of what a paladin or SK brings to raids is totally different. Given a paladin and SK of equal skill apply to my guild right now and I have a single tank roster spot available, I am taking the SK every time. I have no idea what class toon you play or what kind of raid team you're on, but in a higher end guild the game is played fast. SKs ability to grab and keep agro on multiple targets far exceeds paladins. The areas that a paladin excel's at, tanking a single add and providing additional ToT heals, and splashes are pretty low value if the rest of your healer crew is on point. I can see the value rising for what the paladin brings to the table if the rest of your healer crew sucks. But quite frankly, in that case you need to be recruiting more high quality healers and keep recruiting SK's. I've played a paladin for 18 years now, and I play it at an extremely high level, but I see SKs do things that I know I can not do because of the weakness of paladin AE agro. I am fine with where paladin AE agro is, because that is not our niche. Reality is that SK's are the king of AE agro and the value of a good SK is extremely high while a good paladin is just meh.
I'd still like to see the addition of 1 AE stun spell line for paladins. I mean, the parent class has it....enchanters have it... As far as raid make up, it depends on what you have, our guild happens to be solid in the paladin department. We're actually quite blessed in the tanking department as a whole. I definitely put more value than maedhros on paladin's in a raid though. Our curing is unparalleled. I would also like to see a toggle AA ability that allows the cure component of splash to be toggled on or off.
Most likely would be a separate spell, but that's fine too. Also single target Squirt version. Balm(rng)/Renewal(cle) -alike, but paladiney so middle size heal, fast cast, 1tick(?) recast. Probably less mana efficient 'cause we can
I think pallys deserve an ae, since you aren't exactly single target aggro machines in comparison to other tanks (if you were, then I'd maybe argue against it). Sorry to derail a bit, but speaking of stuns. I would really like to see the health of targets target be accurate through stuns. Scenario: Caster jumps on mob fast, then is stun locked. Tanks spend the entire fight trying to figure out if we have aggro or we suck because the caster won't leave HoTT
Stuns have been a major disservice to balance around for Paladins. I’d like to see us move away from them if their not going to be overhauled in some type of way. They are putting us in a worst place every expansion. Weakest Dicho of the tanks and nearly all classes. Weakest Alliance of all classes. Weakest Harmonius, even more so with level increase and more stun immunes. No instant cast on our aggro, because doesn’t make sense with stun. Brief stuns often end up making Paladins take tremendous amounts of dangerous spike damage all at once due to how they can impact NPC timing. The list is way bigger than this and goes on and on I laughed a bit at our curing is unparalleled line and then asking for an ability to toggle it off on splash lol. I think it’s fairly bad when yet another defining feature needs an off button due to mechanisms being in place to make it worthless plus even dangerous at times Regarding raid rosters etc. it definitely depends on what you have. Adding onto a surplus of healing or curing does nothing. More DPS always aids a raid. With current balance as is, you should always go with Shadowknight over Paladin when looking to add just a tank unless heal team is weak. Nowadays with how few raid guilds remain, the inception of heal alliances and them triggering AE heals, most heal squads are pretty solid. We’re in an age where you should be dual wield/2hs tanking raid bosses comfortably or you’re doing it wrong. This in large part comes from the abundance of over healing with a good force
You're correct our potential ability to cure is unparalleled... when they let us use it. The value of paladin splash cures has been significantly reduced in the last several expansions. Events like End of Empires and Damsel of Decay punish you for curing indiscriminately. Other events, like Sathir Line, you bork the achievement by splashing. The vast majority of the remaining events we see dots or debuffs that are not curable. I'm trying to think of the last event that you really needed paladin splashes for curing. Maybe The Journey Home in COTF?
One thing I think you guys are overlooking a little on the population topic is the healing archetype for mmo’s in general. To a *lot* of people, healing others isn’t fun. Raw power can combat that a little and has in flavor of the month eras, but seems like a pretty common trend in my experience.
I’ve heard a few SK/War claim many feel healing others isn’t fun and plays into population of Paladins. I adamantly disagree. It’s only predicated by balance in every game in my experience. Pertaining to Everquest, Clerics are a prime example as they are the best heal class. They also forego more than all others for healing. In raid game, Cleric population is extremely robust and healthy because there is a clear need for their toolkit. The DPS Priest doesn’t come close to touching their count amongst rosters, even when flavor of the month circumstances bolster their numbers. Group game, bit of different story. Most folks can recall how many more Clerics were running around prior to mercs though. Balance dictated they were no longer anywhere near as needed there. If a Cleric merc can get the job done, then that’s all which is required as an over abundance of healing does nothing. Far worst, an over abundance of healing isn’t fun at all when that’s your role. DPS is always needed. More is nearly always good and not wasted for most part. Let’s look at a situation where a ton of DPS is left on the table in group game by a class consistently. Say hi to Necromancers, one of the lowest played classes nowadays on live servers. It’s not very fun to have your power wasted, even for DPS. Regarding MMO’s, Paladins are always right up there in most populated classes category. This was the case for much of EQ also. Now, even in raids, that’s no longer happening. Balance has been swung for many years in another direction
Healing sucks. I get healer mercs on all my priests just so I don't have to heal. Love playing Pally though. Total monsters.
