Why wouldn't you use crushes/nukes with a 2hander. I don't recall anyone saying use crushes and s&b, I assumed it was implied we were using 2 handers.
Because keeping at least one mob stun locked means you can tank larger pulls? Using crushes certainly lowers the amount of mobs you can effectively tank. It provides no chance for the Healing Light group heal to fire, which tends to do a pretty sizable amount of agro itself, and youre taking more damage. Why tank 5 mobs with crushes when you can tank 6 with stuns? I tend to find that rookie paladins are throwing all their AA into defensive stuff first, because they "cant take a hit" but without the healing and dps AA youre not tanking much unless youre soloing because pretty much any dps class is going to pull agro off you. Crushes are not going to allow you to keep agro when youre just starting out the toon or working through the 20K aa. Stuns will at least let you be effective in keeping the mobs from killing your group mates, provided they actually use an assist button. Its a massive investment to get the AA needed to be a solid paladin.
If the 5 mobs die appreciably faster in comparison to 6 with stuns, its possible that over the course of an evening you would kill more mobs in the same time frame. Now if you never hit that threshold maybe you have a point however. Why not tank 6 with crushes and 2hander, 1 single mob doesn't instantly change the outcome from 100% win to 100% die. Play on the edge of what you can do, always push the envelope. Although honestly it doesn't even matter we are both saying things (opinions) with no factual data to back it up. It's like arguing politics or religion.
Ehhh, strongly disagree with that Maedhros. I personally find it silly, once geared especially, to be rolling with that many stuns unless you're moloing or are the only healer/tank in group. Even if what you were saying was true about being able to tank six mobs versus five because of stun locking instead of crushes(which provide more aggro and dps), things like harmonius is going to be stunning our target regardless if getting healed, effectivitely lowering value of actually consistently stunning even more. Could go on and on with other points but going to take Chaosflux line and say to each their own =p
I've argued against stuns countless times when min maxing and the arguments are always the same. Min maxed for optimal damage/tanking etc you nuke on a constant chain. If you are stunning you are leaving a ton of dps on the table, especially if your spell bar is loaded with stuns and you can't spam for kill shots. The faster the mobs die the faster another pull can be brought in.
Definitely, but it has no hate on resists, I haven't parsed exact %, but it feels like its resisted at least 1/4 of the time in EoK on trash with no resist debuffs
I am not saying you are wrong, but let's see a parse before we toss out numbers Although you could always trade burst or some seldom used spell for righteous audacity I guess.
Rofl, trade in a 17k hate spell with some resists for a dot that gets to 17k after ... a minute and a half?
He didn't imply trade in Valiant for Righteous..... He was implying perhaps worth pulling out Righteous for it's magic debuff portion, so Valiant could land more if it was getting resisted that much. Has nothing to do with the tiny hate dot
For most all non raid mob fights, I have 2 stun spells memmed whether I'm actively using them or not. When mobs are stunnable, I use the crap out of them whether the aggro is better generated from other spells or not for a cpl of reasons-group heal procs and I take no dmg for the duration of the stun. Unless the mob is unstunnable or I'm having trouble holding aggro I'll use those stuns to help myself or another tank take less damage. As far as a heavy aggro lineup- FoS is great for initial due to no dmg and a lot of hate followed by Povar or Force of the Darkened or Crush of the Darkened. Almost any fast casting high aggro crush/AA/stun combo off the bat gives you what you need to keep aggro from that point. To snatch aggro off another tank I use ageless then start the aggro lineup and add in admonish and valiant and usually disruptive for dmg and self heals as my aggro lead grows. I think the spells available for paly aggro is very versatile in allowing paladins to mix it up and not be bottlenecked into having to use the same spells that are head and shoulders above the rest.
If you are relying on valiant self heals, and it bounces your going to have a bad time. I completely removed Burst from my regular line up because of the boost to Valiant. I don't use righteous, but if I was having issues with bounce, I might consider it. I wasn't saying to use it for the aggro
The other reason I said that is Valiant has a resist mod of -50 if it's getting resisted (allegedly) 1/4 of the tone (sorry riou using your example) Admonish with a resist mod of -15 would be resisted atleast an equal % of the time (realistically more).
Hmm...Pally TANK with 2H vs sword&board? Hmm... General rule for tanks; (1) GRAB agro FAST, (2) KEEP agro ALWAYS, (3) ...and -->>stay alive<<--!! (You can't dual wield, Pally...shields are your friend) Some excellent advice above on the agro part, although it should be stressed that FoD is used to increase existing agro, not establish it, thus should never be used as first agro cast. Also, Admonish is intentionally low hate and can actually reduce established agro. To the point tho; most successful tanks leave the dps to others, recognizing that dishing out uber 1H damage really isn't the tank's job...grabbing main mob, absorbing hits, staying upright and maintaining that agro is....
I've never found a situation where Admonish has been negative aggro, have you actually tested that theory? IIRC it gives about 980 to 1100 hate not staring at my notes.
[43333/10635] Admonish Rk. III Classes: PAL/102 Skill: Evocation Mana: 1796 Target: Single Range: 200' Resist: Magic -15 Reflectable: Yes Trigger Spell DS: Yes Focusable: Yes Casting: 1s, Recast: 5s, Rest: 1.5s Hate Mod: -3690 1: Decrease Current HP by 4639 (If Not Undead Or Summoned) 2: Decrease Current HP by 6959 (If Undead) 3: Decrease Current HP by 5915 (If Summoned) 4: Cast: Admonish Heal III Text: You stagger under a divine reprimand. Denounces your target, dealing #1 damage and healing your target's target. This spell will deal #2 damage to undead or #3 damage to summoned creatures. This spell will generate less hatred than normal spells. That amount is a modifier, and not an override, so the spell isn't literally negative hate. But it's considerably less than even just healing yourself, or just nuking. It's miles away from any sort of +hate spell.
I find it extremely hilarious not a single person has mentioned Harmonious Blessing. It is insanely powerful in certain situations, and can also have undesired outcomes as well (trying to move a mob and you can not because you are stunning it via Harmonious) [50057/10657] Harmonious Blessing Rk. III Classes: PAL/103 Skill: Abjuration Mana: 4479 Target: Self Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes Focusable: Yes Casting: 0.5s, Rest: 1.5s Duration: 2m (20 ticks), Extendable: Yes, Dispelable: Yes Max Hits: 48 Matching Spells 1: Cast: Harmonious Illumination III on Hit By Spell 2: Limit Target: Single 3: Limit Effect: Current HP 4: Limit Type: Beneficial 5: Limit Min Level: 96 6: Limit Max Level: 110 (lose 100% per level) 7: Limit Max Duration: 0s 8: Limit Min Mana Cost: 10 9: Limit Min Value: 5000 Current HP SPA 10: Limit: Same Caster Text: You don a mantle of harmonious blessings. Places a harmonious blessing on yourself which will cause you to automatically attempt to stun your target and heal your group whenever another caster's heals (between levels #5 and #6) land on you. This blessing will fade after %z or after you have attempted %L stuns. [50060] Harmonious Illumination III Mana: 10 Target: Single Range: 300' Resist: Magic -10 Focusable: Yes Reflectable: Yes Casting: 0s Recourse: Harmonious Light III 1: Stun for 3s up to level 110 2: Increase Hate by 9336 Text: A bright light dazzles you. Stuns a target up to level @1 for up to 3 seconds, imparts an additional #2 hatred for you, and reflects a heal back on your group. 50063] Harmonious Light III Mana: 10 Target: Caster Group Range: 300', AE Range: 100' Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes Focusable: Yes Casting: 0s 1: Increase Current HP by 7600 Text: You are healed by a holy reflection. Heals your group for up to @1 hit points. This plus a 2her and going to town in group content FTW
I personally find it extremely hilarious that an enchanter main with an SK alt is calling Harmonius Blessings "insanely" powerful lol. I brought up the stun component of our Harmonius weeks ago in this very thread. If the stun component on that spell was removed tomorrow I wouldn't complain nor would it impact my game play in any form. I'd be willing to wager a ton of Paladins would say the same =p. All tank classes can go to town with two handers, stuns not required
