Paladin Wishes

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Allayna, Jun 22, 2019.

  1. Wulfhere Augur

    Quite true wrt disease spells. The other thing is that SK can attack several resists, while paladins can only attack magic resist. So the burden of casting Audacity (and getting and using weapons that proc Tash and Malo) is much higher of a requirement for paladins.

    I think it's a neat design by the Devs to create beneficial ToT spells like Protective that enable niches for e.g. paladins to tank mobs that resist like crazy. I would like to see more of these types of spells that cast quickly and do useful target of target healing and buffs (temp HP, runes, steely blades, defensive procs, AC, swarm pets ("the cavalry has arrived to protected SoAndSo!"). Similar to SK Theft and Torrent spells in their application.

    ps: SK does have one old spell that lowers all resists by -10, Aura of Darkness, that probably goes unused because the lures on mainline spells are plenty good.
  2. p8aa Elder

    Not really. Both knights mitigate the same. If there was an enormous difference, then on a similar target, paladins would be destroyed by this target, while SK would not be. I have seen on raid mobs paladins not mitigating less good than SK. SK got a slight advantage with Reaver's Bargain, but at the end I have seen raid boss and raid adds tanked equally as good by paladins and SK.
    Though as every raw mitigation ability is the same between SK and Pally, i still believe paladins should get their version of Reaver's Bargain. I never understood why the mitigation tool parity has not been respected with Reaver's Bargain.
  3. Wulfhere Augur

    Using a spell gem for Audacity is the cost of relying on ToT heals currently and it's been getting worse since EoK. In some TBL zones, I also need to bandolier to Malo and sometimes even Tash procs (hurting dps and aggro) in order to land Audacity and then mainline spells.

    So I can agree that the resist checks are Censure and Valiant could be better. Refute also but it's not a ToT heal, just mitigation. At least Audacity should land reliably to enable the others to land (paying the cost). It's getting to where that's not enough on its own and it should be or else the cost is too high. Imagine if enchanters land tash and still cannot land other spells? Or just recall the endless complaints from necros about Scent nerfly tuning. There is a balance to be had towards self sufficiency in one's arsenal.
  4. tyrantula Elder

    Valiant is a single target aggro heal ToT .... Insidious is an AE aggro leech ... I don't see how you can compare the two other than they're the same resist check?

    I simply do not have enough spell gems to load a single target heal in my spell bar with the roles that I fill for raids. I don't mem them during group game because content doesn't warrant it. The only time I ever mem single target heals is tower mephits when we do Generals.
    Liljit likes this.
  5. sojero Augur

    I compare them because they were given to us at the same time and serve the same purpose, heal + agro. While most places insidious is an amazing spell and imo better than valiant, I play with a bard a lot that pulls more than I can handle at times, and mezzes them, sadly we don't have infinite up time on our discs, and so I cannot use it and keep in on my spell key because of this in certain situations, usually only the hardest of content, and on raids where you have mez mobs. So it has limitations where valiant doesn't. they are comparable.
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  6. tyrantula Elder

  7. Wulfhere Augur

    I agree and since witness check bugs were fixed this past year (thanks), Valiant is performing on par with Insidious finally after 5 years of being broken.
    Liljit likes this.
  8. Liljit Augur

    Valiant is amazing now that it is fixed. My only gripe is that it is 1 spell vs the many options afforded to sks. SK revulsion line does no damage and can load multiple and has no target limit.

    I think all would agree that paladin's still suffer in the AE aggro department mainly because our refresh on AA abilities is twice that of other tanks and we have less of them.

    I could concede that the next line of insidious or perhaps through some amazing amount of AA, it would pass some of that healing to the group.
  9. Warpeace Augur

    AA that allows Group Armor to be cast on another group again.

    I don't think Warriors would mind the added support on raids.
  10. Liljit Augur

    We generally split up the tank groups so that it has war/pal/sk and then all 3 abilities can be taken advantage of.
  11. Warpeace Augur

    Except when that groups Paladin's group armor is down. I'm talking pre nerf, where it could be used more.
  12. sojero Augur

    When group armor is down is when you have your sk do their epic for the group, coordination man!
  13. Brohg Augur

    we group warriors so that their Imperator's can be kept on each other / their group (takes 3).
    we group SKs so Lich Sting can be kept on each other / their group (takes 3).
    we split Paladins so each group benefits from Aura, Armor. Grouping paladins together wouldn't benefit each other re:Armor until something like the 15th minute?
  14. Lisard Augur

    Paladins should be able to wield a 2hs and a shield at the same time. paladin lore has always been mega swords while wielding shields both in and out of EQ.

    paladins should be able to place Holy artifacts on the ground that act as short duration aura's and anyone (PC/NPC) who enters their range gets the benefits/debuffs/dd's

    1. slams their Nightbane, Sword of the Valiant into the ground emitting a Valiant Flame, Healing waveto allies and a AE to undead / halved dmg to living for x time

    2. slams their shield to the ground empowering their allies. (increased Armor Class and raising Armor Class caps) and stun's nearby enemies for 0.5 second for x time

    [IMG]via Imgflip Meme Generator
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  15. Ofearl Augur

    Tons of great ideas in this thread... now lets move to other ideas, gear/focus effects. I’ll start!

    1. Shields: keep the same copy paste but I’d like to see slot 3,5,5,7/8. Add effect: 3 sec added to shield flash, vector of health to be 100 distance ae heal.
    2. Knight 1 hander sword, add slot 5, add wave heal with group rune proc
  16. Seldom Augur

    Many great ideas in this thread thus far as was just stated. In no particular order and to echo what some others have stated/throw some of my own opinions in the hat;

    1.) A fairly tuned, level appropriate Harmonious ability:
    Stun locking mobs from simply being healed wasn’t the best of designs. Do something else logical with this line other than stagnating it for Paladins while other classes continue getting upgrades on it.

    2.) A fairly tuned Alliance ability:
    Feel free to remove the stun and add an AE heal for fulmination. Increase on damage as well.

    3.) A better tuned Dicho ability:
    Many things can be done to make this more relevant and appealing. Temp HP boost, increase witness check aggro on heals mod if needing to keep it class specific unique or a large rune etc.

    3.) Reaver’s Bargain Equivalent

    4.) Bump to overall sustained melee dps.

    5.) Bump to Slay Undead DPS, ESPECIALLY if live DPS isn’t addressed. Bump to undead in next expansion to use on....:)

    6.) Bump to spell DPS.

    7.) Better utilization of witness check aggro from abilities like Valiant. Many neat things can be done with this now that it’s finally been corrected for awhile now. A true pity to have it limited mainly to Valiant line or the negative aggro check on Censure etc.

    8.) Address stuns being a cornerstone of our arsenal:
    We have one of if not the weakest Alliance, Harmonius and Dicho abilities in game due to “stun” component. These are powerful game changing abilities that need to stack up to other classes if a semblance of balance is being strived for. We’re losing out on massive damage, aggro and many other important things due to a “stun” component, that more often than not, isn’t even going to stun. Please correct

    Some of our complaints were addressed last year with the correction of witness check aggro after many years, a creative ability added in that we didn’t even ask for to my knowledge, Gift of Life AE(thanks, have saved many with this!), Lay of Hands ToT(thanks! has come in handy as well). Please expand on these type of things. Was a breath of fresh air. The Paladin community definitely could use another similar fresh breath when beta/next expansion rolls around :).
  17. yepmetoo Augur

    Dicho isn't worth memming to me unless the recast is cut in half.

    Alliance I'm uninterested in unless necros are fixed first. Who cares if we can't cast it?

    We need better single target aggro. Something that isn't negated by a magic immune/resistant mob would be good as well.

    I think our 24 sec recast crush should be moved to a different timer (uncoupled from lesson line) and given a 6 second recast.

    A fix to censure line eating twinheal procs would be nice.
  18. Liljit Augur

    I keep dissident loaded, but seeing it reach, what 88k on lucky crit for the group as a max compared to dichotomic fang doing 144k self heal is weaksauce.

    Some reworking of the burst line, single target heals as pass through heals or removal of the negative hate mod from admonish line and some actual improvements to harmonious, dissident and alliance would be appreciated.
  19. Aelen Augur

    Quoted from SK thread, continuing here.

    I don't play Pally as much, mine isn't up to date,but I have decent mechanics. I'm also a spreadsheeter.

    I wanna say if the ToT/Target combo treatment(Like Lay on Hands) was given to Burst of Morninglight and Healing Light lines, they'd both feel a lot better.

    Light is a better heal than Protective Devotion, more mana efficient, faster casting, harder to interrupt, and scales with SPA120 abilities as well as Heal Crit like Auspice and Bard stuff, and the heal mod on the Empowered Banner. Without the scaling at all, the speed advantage alone makes it better on the healing front starting from ground zero.

    Protective Devotion has a SPA162 Vie. It doesn't do anything during Armor of Mercy/Merciful Penitence, or Kar'Zok Mantle. It has a soft conflict with Cleric Shining Defense, where the marginal value is 5% blocking, so the functional value of the Vie on Devotion goes from 63652 to 21217 if you have a Cleric. The vie also doesn't enjoy scaling with any of your SPA120 stuff.

    Having Burst and Light both with the faster casting times makes panic response with a baited Twinheal a lot better too. Both fully twin, whereas the Vie on devotion doesn't twin to double value. It's also easier to thread these after noticing a bad round if your reflexes are good.

    I wanna say the specific niche of Protective Devotion would seem to be sustained solo play. Bursty gimmicks, you can be using the stuff that scales the bigger heals harder, and the discs that make Devotion less useful. With a cleric, the value goes down generally. With any healer, you can more easily afford to take advantage of timing gimmicks on the faster stuff.

    The biggest problem with Burst and Light lines, to me, is they feel horrible to use for the role they're supposed to fill. They're quick refresh heals, and you want to use them as part of a weave or as reactions to spikes, not occasional things. So needing 3x the APM to use them for what they're made for, Target Self or Other Player/Heal/Target Mob, makes it bad for long duration play. On top of that they're using hybrid cast times paired with knight melee, so the cycles need to be faster than other such patterns for other classes.

    I'd prolly throw in the same treatment for the Merciful Touch line, it's out of meta but worth keeping with similar functionality for if the raw efficiency/low spending rate became important.
  20. Aelen Augur

    Most of my opinions and complaints related to Paladins tends to be related to smoothness/general feel of playability. Being defensively focused gives you some meta problems, and support in general tends to attract a lower player population regardless of if its strong or not, but I think Paladins key problems viewed for there own sake tend to be in the "feel" category more than power.

    I'd like bumping Preservation of Rodcet to the counters/duration of Tylix's Skin to be considered.

    I'd like the Lay On Hands style targeting considered for Burst of Morninglight and Healing Light lines.

    I'd like Crushes being moved to instant considered.

    I'd like Revitalizing Steel considered for an increase to duration, and increase to proc counter, removing the ability to stack multiples in the line, and giving it an AA hook to cast without a spell gem, as a semi-passive healing boost. It's current form seems too questionable to me for general use.

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