Paladin Wishes

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Allayna, Jun 22, 2019.

  1. Warpeace Augur

    Reduce the cast time on Nightbane to .3 cast time please. Maybe something across the board for all classes epics to reduce their cast times.
    tyrantula likes this.
  2. Wulfhere Augur

    Those two caught my eye.

    Hand of Tunare is also dangerous to use in a group or raid if there are cure detrimentals being cast that could lead to your death from Tunare's Fatigue. They can even grief kill you with a well time dispel for grins and giggles. The spell should be fixed at least to protect against griefing (just remove Tunare's Fury). Better yet, think of this one compared to Reaver's Bargain and add some "growth inspired" tanking effects that ultimately drain mana and endurance instead.

    Sanctification has so little use that its recast timer should get some more AA focus reductions. It's about as useful as Shield of Brilliance (spell reflects) which gets down to a 3 minute reuse. One way to have Sanctification usable in a raid is to add an intervention buff (DI or spell rune). It can't resist all spells but it can still protect the paladin against dying from irresistible ones.
  3. Wulfhere Augur

    One thing that I think is long overdue as well is simple basic skill cap increases. Paladins are so far behind other melee wrt offense (280), weapon skills (430), double attack (260), triple attack (475), riposte (425), and h2h (375).

    Simply raise the caps extra and/or add AA to increase specialized or forte melee skills (e.g. 1h slash, 2h slash) would help paladin DPS, including more swings for slays. As it stands paladin attack and especially accuracy are many levels behind other melee and have been for years. Old math suggests its about 1% per 10 points in a skill, probably less now, so we're not talking about huge gains. Some respectable skill gains would add maybe 10% more damage from our primary weapons, our melee.
  4. Stephen51 Augur

    I'm really liking a lot of the suggestions here. I'll toss in my two penneth;

    I, probably like a lot of you, was frustrated when we didn't get an upgrade or replacement to both Alliance and Harmonious. I can understand from how Allayna has theorised that to have a sub-par spell taking a slot on the mob, that DB decided to pull it. To have a stun in what is predominately a raid spell was surprising as, in most cases, raid mobs are stun-immune. Trash are usually only stunnable if its part of the script, bosses never are. Perhaps DB didn't have enough resource to go back to the drawing board to start again. I think the trigger should still be damage spells cast by other paladins, but the result could be an instant and/or duration heal on the raid.

    I like the idea of an AA toggle for the cure component on splash. As we only get so many spells per expansion I'd be concerned a spell version would bump something else.

    Valorous Rage - was introduced before the two hander nerf that reduces dodge/parry and supresses Combat Stability was added. VR reduces AC by 1300 for its duration. Either remove this all together or add an AA to reduce the detrimental effect.

    Rune/Mitigation for overhealing - I love love LOVE this idea. I had thought of something akin to this but couldn't have put it as well as was said here. Give it to all classes that can heal as an AA in my opinion. I'm a Paladin, I'm happy to share.

    I thought about an AA/disc/spell that worked a bit like our reverse ds, to mitigate a % of damage from a mob and reflect that % back on the mob as damage.

    It could be a quick recast spell/AA - like refute for honor - perhaps adding the current ability by reflecting the damage back when we get hit, or it could be a larger reflect (and longer cooldown) disc, for tanking a named/boss?
    Allayna likes this.
  5. Allayna Augur

    Something we were talking about in guild the other day...

    Priests in general haven't gotten a new rez in a while. What would be cool is @ 115 all priests get a new rez, rez with mana/end, let's say 20-30% mana endurance rez at 96% experience. Clerics would get an AA AE version. Paladins would get the same upgrade that druid and shaman get. This would be both a spell and an AA.

    I think there have been a lot of good ideas already posted in here and I'm grateful to see the paladin community come together with new suggestions on what we collectively see as an improvement to the class we all play.
    KarmaKitty and Warpeace like this.
  6. Warpeace Augur

    I would guess they will keep 96% rez locked out when in combat or having a combat timer. So with your idea I would ask that the mana / end also be pushed to our 90% rez.

    They might be able to just add that to another rank of the AA versions and call it a day?
    Allayna likes this.
  7. Allayna Augur

    I’d be perfectly happy with 90% Rez upgraded spell and new AA rank that gave mana and endurance back. If it was tied to a focus AA I wonder if it would affect Rez sticks.
  8. Maedhros Augur

    We're never going to see runes applied for over healing unless a rather small limit is set. Otherwise the entire raid is spam healing for 15 minutes before you engage an event to maximize runes.
    It also seems a challenge to code it so that the rune applied matches the amount of over healing. Even with staggered thresholds, that's a whole lot of calculations that have to take place when a tank is taking 20+ heals every tick.
  9. Kleitus_Xegony Augur

    Just a semi-random thought but I wonder if something like the original effect from the Mana Forged Gauntlets could be worked out as a Paladin disc / AA. It would be more useful in the group game or when we're tanking raid adds but worthless against raid bosses since we'd never dodge/parry/riposte (or am I not remembering how the gauntlets effect worked correctly prenerf - the nonstop procing of heals from combat effects). Given a duration and appropriate costs and it might be a useful tool.
  10. Stephen51 Augur

    You make some good points there Maedhros. I would say to avoid exploit that any buff from over healing would be short duration (10 sec?) so that if you are in mid-fight you will get the benefit as intended, but if you are sitting in the guild hall it's not going to happen.

    I'd also say that if you had an over healing buff on you, another could not land.

    As much as I'd like a rune to be a large amount, that's not the everquest way, its benefits in small amounts, but if it was a pure rune rather than a mitigating buff, I couldn't see it lasting more than 1 hit anyway from a raid boss.

    As for coding, well you have me there, I'm no techy, I just switch this spirit box on and use it to enter another world......

    …..but to be serious I am guessing that's DB's job, although I appreciate the easier the change the cheaper the change the better chance of a change.
  11. tyrantula Elder

    The rune/mitigation buff on over-heal could only apply during combat? Sort of like how Hiatus is only usable out of combat, or Yaulp is usable while standing.

    Personally, I want to see removal of AE mob limits on our AEs and drop the cast time. Give us more aggro spells. Boost our dps a flat ~15-20%.
    Stephen51 likes this.
  12. Wulfhere Augur

    I think you mean Manalinked Gauntlets and they proc a 1 counter buff, Spell Empowerment, that heals 5k before crit and adds 10% crit nuke chance.

    It doesn't fully stack with Paladins AA Thunder of Karana which is close to this effect already. So adding ranks to ToK AA could easily fulfill this idea with passive effects along side the activated effects. Second this idea.
  13. Kleitus_Xegony Augur

    You are correct... Manalinked Gauntlets not Manaforged or Mana Forged. It was definitely the original form of the Manalinked Gauntlets that I was referring to. I simply remembered the name incorrectly - thanks for correcting it.
  14. Kleitus_Xegony Augur

    Just touching on a few of your ideas from the original post...

    I'd prefer an AE heal that blocked the use of splash but didn't rely on us dropping the free target ring for the heal. Have it centered on us, so that we don't have to deal with crappy terrain like the Skyfire raid. There are lots of times we go to drop it and the target ring switches from Green to Red just as you go to hit the button and you just waste time on having to recast it. It's even more frustrating if you can't see the target ring because of bad zone geometry.

    Or just give us better DPS vs. all mobs. Slay undead is mostly eye candy, smash hits that look good but don't compare to what real DPS chars do to all mobs anyways. We're the "slayers of undead" in name only.

    You bring up exactly what is wrong. A lot of the abilities are there, but they haven't been updated so now they're just not up to snuff (especially Alliance & Harmonious). The old abilities just need updated and improved. Addressing these items would go a long way towards the improvements I think we need.

    Your idea for an AE stun on our Harmonious would be too powerful though.

    I also agree with most of this. The turning a mob undead though is not something a Paladin would ever do. You can't just ignore the role-play idea of a Paladin to up our DPS. Plus it would stomp on something that is somewhat unique to the Necromancers. I also disagree with the idea about casting Marr's Salvation on the mob. I think your idea for the double stun length is interesting but could require code changes and they're probably unlikely to do that for such a niche ability.

    If it were me, I'd definitely remove the negative aggro mod on the admonish line like you suggest. The original reasons for the negative aggro mod haven't been an issue for a long time now.

    I'd also add that something needs done with our Undead only stun. It's pointless really (shares a timer with another of our stuns that works on living & undead) and they still haven't "fixed" the max stun level of the last version of it compared to our other stuns. The resist rate mod isn't worth bothering with unless you know you will only be fighting undead. They could replace that spell with an AE stun with a small mob count (similar to Beacon or Lodestar) or just replace that line of spells with a DPS spell similar to Crush but without the bonus hate. That would give us options for spell lineups. If they really think we need the resist mod, then stick it on one of the other stuns. Right now, that undead stun is an entire spell line calling out to be replaced.

    Another suggestion I'd have is AA to lower the cast time for our Audacity spell line. Not that it's slow to cast but it would improve the life of group only Paladins if it was instant cast like the Refute line. Although I'm not sure that alone would make it a must-have memorized spell for the group game Paladins. This spell line should definitely be changed / improved - the magic debuff seems out of character for Paladins anyways.
  15. Wulfhere Augur

    Agreed. It needs to stun to up to 115. It's a bug that it still doesn't. It's pointless in it's current form.
    I think it's too late for that. I find I memorize Audacity all the time in RoS and TBL content because of the resist rates against both Refute and Censure. In fact I use it a lot more then Refute, so that's another reason why I believe the Devs mashup of Refute and Helix was a net loss for paladins. We are forced to memorize a spell gem that reduces are ability to DPS or heal or slow/cripple undead, and we have to use yet another spell gem for Refute to land reliably. That cost paladins 2! spell gems. Boggle.
    Allayna likes this.
  16. Allayna Augur

    A combo refute/audacity spell would be a nice solution and free up a valuable debuff slot.
    tyrantula, Wulfhere and Warpeace like this.
  17. shiftie Augur

    The thing about audacity that absolutely sucks... when it launched it was a worthless spell and we complained that it was terrible at aggro and wasn’t needed for resist rates. So they upped mob resist rates to make it critical for normal play forcing us to use it to simply land core spells in group play.

    It never should have been added as it is. It should have a much higher hate amount or uniqueness. They simply could have added the debuff and aggro to our marks making an all around useful spell.
  18. Wulfhere Augur

    Shiftie, I think your idea is a bit more complicated then Allayna's because it can conflict with cleric marks. If you mean the slot 1 DS "Mark of Crusader" line (that stacks and) that no paladin ever uses (right?) then maybe the Devs can resurrect that spell line similar to the Refute/Helix mashup.

    The thing is, I feel that the Devs have done the latest resist rate thing to "encourage" more grouping. TBL group content is tuned so that I often need to land tash + malo + audacity to land most any other spell in my arsenal. I've cast Refute or Censure on mobs 4 and 6 times in a row to have them be resisted, even with Audacity on (alone). Without group support, I have to bandolier to my trusty de-buff weapons as often as not. Okay that's dynamic game play, i.e. fun fun fun. Well unless you're a necro who wants/needs Scent of Thule to land reliably.

    Let's combine these ideas. Devs, please combine Refute + Audacity + Mark (of the Crusader line) + Helix (if you must, return it to AA preferred) into a single spell gem and single buff slot to make them raid friendly. Call it Refute of the Crusader ftw.

    Thanks in advance for returning a spell gem to paladins. Oh and please up the DS on the next Mark by 10x or 20x to match mob HP inflation.
    tyrantula likes this.
  19. tyrantula Elder

    If we could get Refute + Audacity + Mark, that would be insanely awesome. I use Orthiss on Smoke raids but that's it. I haven't memmed Audacity since they lowered TBL resists, but I always have Refute memmed regardless.
  20. tyrantula Elder

    And to add, @Wulfhere is right, a DS hitting for a few hundred in group content is so negligible that it's not even worth using. At all.

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