Paladin Wishes

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Allayna, Jun 22, 2019.

  1. Wulfhere Augur

    Forgot Valiant is not focused. Would seem a new AA "Improved Valiant Defense" is part of the proposal or Aristo retunes the spells directly.
    Allayna likes this.
  2. Wulfhere Augur

    Actually that's a good alternative idea. We've all be focusing on cast times but in fact SPDAT supports flagging spells as Interruptable by movement or not. Aristo could flag certain spells and leave the casting times as-is to achieve the stated goals.
  3. sojero Augur

    They also addressed it with Stoicism AA it is probably time to add more of those.
    Allayna likes this.
  4. Metapsyche Augur

    so last night I had a raid (full clear of GMM / TBL minus slugs)

    Full raid, 4 Paladins (yikes!)

    GMM1- not much to report here, full dps burn with warriors tanking. I aggroed rats and mechanics passively to keep them off dps while dpsing the boss. We had 3 sk’s so they mainly took care of that.

    **Would be nice to have been able to contribute more dps on that fight.

    Lineup: Crush, Rem, Bril, Censure, Cons, laudation

    GMM2- I’m in south room tank group, nothing much to say about this fight. Paladins do “fine”. I’m mainly tanking, dpsing, and splashing heavily.

    **nothing much for Paladins and improvements here. We perform fine on this event and nothing that I am particularly missing or wanting

    Lineup: Lineup: Crush Timo, Crush E’ci, Bril, Valiant, Force, Rem, Refute

    GMM3: xtar 4 tank, I basically tank my mob facing south and that’s all. 2h burn when Mech comes down, but I don’t usually have time to change from my Aggro lineup so the burn is sad.

    **better dps on our agro spells? I dunno.

    Lineup: same as GMM2

    Stratos- lately I’ve been tanking the first boss on the west, so I generally dps / splash phase one and actively avoid using discs due to west boss being up longer and wanting to have a lot available for it. Stun some hooplas, win.

    **Not much to say on this fight other than wishing pureforge had a 10m timer from the previous fight so I could burn on time for last boss- but Paladin burns are meh anyway.

    Lineup: Crush Timo, Crush E’ci, Bril, Valiant, Force, Rem, Refute

    Ralafins- burned oblate, dps on sacre and Theo, second tank on eccle. I spent most of eccle spamming targeted heals on my warrior and casting group heals when aoe touches my cleric. Picked up spiders when they spawned. We were burning spiders at eccle so it was a pretty easy fight for me.

    ** I would have liked my heals to be HTOT on this one so I could put some good healing on the MT while dpsing. I didn’t do much Dps

    Lineup: same as GMM1, my dps lineup also has my targeted heals on it

    Bridge: I’m up in the south tower, dps from the start and then moved up on the first whorlings. This is my normal spot and I generally have zero isssues, last night I lucked into a Whorling, no problem. Jopal, died easy. Whorling, slowed to kill this one and got a second Whorling while we were finishing it off. Health spiked and jopal spawned, ouch. Two Whorling and jopal ate the Paladin, spare group rescued us.

    **paladins are great at the tower job, I don’t usually have any issues this was just an unlucky night. Generally if you need an offtank with no healer- Paladins are great for it. This is an event / job where we shine

    Lineup: same as stratos, but I replace double crush with double stuns for whorlings. I don’t generally have agro issues in the tower.

    Typing on my phone and tired of it for now. I’ll post the rest of our events later-
  5. Xanathol Augur

    In other words,

    [Sat Oct 05 00:02:41 2019] [Sat Oct 05 01:00:37 2019] 36 in ~58 minutes
    [Sat Oct 05 15:18:24 2019] [Sat Oct 05 16:36:40 2019] 40 in ~79 minutes
    [Sat Oct 05 23:13:20 2019] [Sat Oct 05 23:52:56 2019] 21 in ~39 minutes

    Or roughly 1 interrupt every 2 minutes...
  6. shiftie Augur

    Or 2 interrupts per mob which would mean I could expect 6 interrupts or greater in 2 minutes if tanking 3

    There is nothing wrong accepting this type of experience when healing. It should not exist for 1 tank out of 3 when casting aggro spells. But thanks for slumming it on a paladin thread just because I posted. Are the tlp not interesting enough for you to just stay there. Considering you haven’t posted on a non tlp forum outside of patch notes in eons. Do you follow me on these forums? You do don’t you?
  7. Xanathol Augur

    Its nice you think of me so much but no, I like most others couldn't care less about you particularly. Just putting your misreprsentation in perspective (which if one did follow you would be a full time job).
  8. shiftie Augur

    Lol I have 59 posts in just over 365 days but since you like numbers so much 5 posts a month. Maybe that’s why you have so much free time to be disgruntled because you think 30 minutes a month is equivalent to a full time job.
  9. Cragzop Augur

    Man, ignore all the other stuff.

    Just swap Mortal Coil and Blessing of the Faith between SKs and Pallies for an expansion cycle.

    DPS gotta DPS, healers gotta heal.
  10. p2aa Augur

    If it was not working as intended, then you would not be able to single tank all raid bosses of the current expansion from start to the end ?
    That being said, I prefer you work on your healing spell improvement, like reducing the interrupts or the cast times, than getting new "raw damage cut" abilities like warriors can have.
    As I think this would not close the gap even more between knights and warriors on tanking hard hitting mobs in raids.
  11. Brohg Augur

    Welp. Thank goodness knights aren't obligated to negotiate with you for class development, lol.
  12. Petalonyx Augur

    I'm just a group paladin, but i thought I'd chime in here as things are different in the group game where max hp isnt as much, and paladins can easily go from full to flattened in 2 rounds of TBL named melee dmg.

    Recovery IS NOT a replacement for mitigation.

    Paladins sure as heck dont need more healing. We just had the Tunare buff and now more HoTT mechanics are coming. We already outheal some priests (hi druids).

    We have like five(?) Instant cast group heals (I'm counting dissident while tunare is active, plus Force rejuv).

    What is missing is a Reavers Bargain style MITIGATION option. So a group paladin has a chance to cast a heal or react to a damage spike in the first place.

    First and foremost, a paladin ought to be able to fulfill the tank role. Healing is secondary and already in a fine place. No a paladin shouldn't mitigate as well as a warrior. Would be nice if we could mitigate as well as pur SK counterparts.
  13. Wulfhere Augur

    I know that increases to Blessing of Life AA heal amount and proc rate have been asked. I think the proc rate bonus could be much higher (80% to 100%) and still be under powered.

    I also ask that that Blessing of Life AA get a +hate mod added to the heal to help with passive aggro. It could act like Valiant heal as witness check AE aggro.

    Blessing of Life (20)
    Level 109 RoS
    1: Add Melee Proc Blessing of Life XX with 10% Rate Mod
    This passive ability grants your melee attacks a chance (with a 10% bonus) to trigger Blessing of Life XX which heals you for 2750 health.

    Blessing of Life XX
    Target: Self
    Hate Mod: +1234
    1: Increase Current HP by 2750

    These changes would mitigate issues with spell interruptions on both the aggro and self healing that paladins are expected to do while tanking, similar to how SKs function so well.
  14. p2aa Augur

    Thanks goodness warriors aren't obligated to negotiate with you, for class development, lol.
  15. sojero Augur

    I would like to see increase to the proc rate for blessing, though without seeing some parses, and have never tried parsing the difference between pally blessing of life and SK touch of the cursed.

    The real concern would be the hate mod, that is incredibly powerful and can have unintended consequences if you got a bunch of procs at the wrong time. AE agro is something you want to be controlled, one of the reasons I vary rarely use harmonious. Pretty much only in the group game do i ever use it, and I don't even think about it much there.

    The hate mod on valiant is new and unique, no other heal in the game does that.
  16. Wulfhere Augur

    Yeah you're right that it could be too spikey and cause trouble on raids, but it's not even noticable now. I'm not asking for a percentage mod (SPA 455 or 456), that's another story, just that the heal that procs a 0-6 times a minute cause some noticeable +hate.

    The hate mod on Valiant is not new or unique, but definitely rare. I recall a few other heals and buffs were modified as well when witness check was fixed. Valiant was designed as-if it would work as an extra good (ae) beneficial aggro. I'd like to see more paladin spells leverage that idea. I'm even going to join the consensus opinion that Censure line could have a +hate mod (vs -hate mod), or at least none at all.
    Allayna likes this.
  17. sojero Augur

    What is the realistic parsed rate of it now? Go parse on a dummy for 24 hrs and see what it is, unless someone already knows what the proc rate is, than you can design a solution of how to upgrade the AA to be better. This would take the ambiguity out of asking for stuff to be put on it without knowing the actual results.

    I mean I would fully support you guys getting a 1.3k hate bonus on it as long as sk get a 2k one of ToTC. God I would feel so sorry for warriors in that world. Where is the thoughts and prayers for warriors! Maybe they get a 1k ae hate proc on sneering grin or something like that

    There are a lot of issues with putting an uncontrolled ae hate on anything, I can't tell you how many times when TBL first came out I would proc a rune proc on start of stratos raid and die cause shield flash is only frontal and they would come from the side. Then I would stand back and do terror, and the AA that does the heal would proc off and bring them all to em before others grabbed, and I would die. It was a running joke with us for a while about if I would die on activation or not. Doesn't happen anymore becuase I know where to stand and others are faster at their pickups. Another issue i see is when SK MT and adds pop if the other tanks are not right on the ball the SK will have agro cause of our rune procs and AA procs. I know pally can have the same issues, but pallies don't actually tank so they aren't effected :)

    What other heal has a bonus hate mod attached to it?

    edit to add:

    Maybe have a bonus hate added to the proc of the Revitalizating Steel line, that would up your AE agro, a bit random but still controlled as to when it happens (timeframe) and gives the spell a reason to be memed more.

    Or add a bonus hate to Dissident Force Healing
  18. Maedhros Augur

    I'm pretty heavily against passive hate being added to blessing of life procs. Agro needs to be intentional and controlled. I would be thrilled with a higher proc rate on blessing of life, (especially after indirect nerfs to healing light AA) and another rank or two but we need to find proper solutions for our agro.
    sojero likes this.
  19. Odiiusx Lorekeeper

    Can make a quick and easy fix for single target hate and have our Harmonious proc off our stun heals. That would essentially double stun and double heal each of the 40 counters.

    While our AE hate isn't the best, I have found on raids like Meratas during the mephit phase's, I can just Splash the raid right when they spawn and get most of the Mephits on me that don't have a tank yet. Of course that is just the product of heal agro, and it turns into a timing issue below 25%, but it is still a tool when Beacon and Hallowed are both down.

    I am the worst Paladin in the game though, so all of this could be me talking out of my greaves.
    Maedhros likes this.
  20. shiftie Augur

    I have not purchased TBL so mileage may vary.

    [Wed Oct 09 20:08:56 2019] You are blessed with life. You healed Shiftee for 0 (5244) hit points by Blessing of Life XX.
    [Wed Oct 09 20:09:15 2019] You are blessed with life. You healed Shiftee for 0 (5244) hit points by Blessing of Life XX.
    [Wed Oct 09 20:09:21 2019] You are blessed with life. You healed Shiftee for 0 (10489) hit points by Blessing of Life XX. (Critical)
    [Wed Oct 09 20:09:29 2019] You are blessed with life. You healed Shiftee for 0 (5244) hit points by Blessing of Life XX.
    [Wed Oct 09 20:09:59 2019] You are blessed with life. You healed Shiftee for 0 (5244) hit points by Blessing of Life XX.
    [Wed Oct 09 20:10:04 2019] You are blessed with life. You healed Shiftee for 0 (10489) hit points by Blessing of Life XX. (Critical)
    [Wed Oct 09 20:10:34 2019] You are blessed with life. You healed Shiftee for 0 (10489) hit points by Blessing of Life XX. (Critical)
    [Wed Oct 09 20:10:59 2019] You are blessed with life. You healed Shiftee for 0 (11350) hit points by Blessing of Life XX. (Lucky Critical)
    [Wed Oct 09 20:11:14 2019] You are blessed with life. You healed Shiftee for 0 (5244) hit points by Blessing of Life XX.
    [Wed Oct 09 20:12:05 2019] You are blessed with life. You healed Shiftee for 0 (5244) hit points by Blessing of Life XX.
    [Wed Oct 09 20:13:01 2019] You are blessed with life. You healed Shiftee for 0 (10489) hit points by Blessing of Life XX. (Critical)
    [Wed Oct 09 20:13:15 2019] You are blessed with life. You healed Shiftee for 0 (5244) hit points by Blessing of Life XX.
    Including the 11th proc for total healing as it happened just past the 5 minute mark but removing for the proc rate- 2 PPM. I have parsed this extensively in the past so I don't need to run a 24 hour parse this small parse of 5 minutes confirms nothing has changed.
    90,014/5 = 18,002HP/minute
    90,014/300 = 300HP/second
    This equals out to restoring only 8% of my total HP pool every minute, I am on the low end of the gear spectrum this gets worse for raid paladins. I did not run it with mods so it would obviously be better doing so.
    What does touch of the cursed Hit for and what does a double crit heal for?
    They could - increase the proc rate -
    or drastically increase the base healing (since mudflation seems to have caused serious issues with its effective healing per HP pool)
    or Add a HoT that works like ward for 2-3 tics 1/2 the value of LoH max value of the HoT. This would prevent extra healing from heal mods and add to the total healing value (while not slot conflicting with the normal HoT spells).

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