Paladin Wishes

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Allayna, Jun 22, 2019.

  1. sojero Augur


    I respect and understand that power of the passive swing heal that SK have, the differences in cast time is all I was talking about.

    Pally have FoD to tag and cast every 9 seconds and better agro on their refute line than SK that neither will be interrupted to compete with our terrors. Your self healing though is faster cast and more reliable than our lifetaps and procs. its all about the give and take.
  2. Livvy_CT Lorekeeper


    Problem with our self heals is that you have to target yourself to do it, unless you mean our tot heals, but those are slowish.

    If they go through with the making heals work like LoH, then it will be an advantage for us.
  3. sojero Augur


    I am operating on both premises. You will have loh style heals soon, so talking about next xpac stuff you have to take those into consideration. Also you tot heals are faster cast than SK lifetaps are, .5 sec vs 1 sec, so .4 vs .8 after spell haste.
  4. p2aa Augur

    How much do you rank in tank balance the massive self healing advantage you have over warriors ? This massive self healing advantage allows you to fill the fact that you have less "raw" mitigation tools than warriors in raid (paladins are at the top on their own heal parse)
    We still keep an edge, i'm going to throw ballpark numbers, paladins are maybe at 85 % of raw mitigation power of warriors on raid bosses, and SK at 90 % (due to Reaver bargain advantage).
    My problem is complaining that warriors have instant cast abilities is dumb.
    It would be like Beastlords and Rangers with their spell having cast time complaining zerkers, rogues, monks have no cast time on their abilities. So less DPS !
    The point of comparison is SK, it makes sense. Both of classes are hybrid classes.
  5. Livvy_CT Lorekeeper

    What’s funny is they seem slow when I’m tanking but I guess they aren’t as slow as I thought. Personally I just want better aggro on both single target and AE aggro
  6. shiftie Augur

    Here is a sample of a log search from Oct 5th. A normal GMM run just johnny casual taking my time after the changes I rarely tank more than 1 utilizing root to keep the mobs split. It gets worse if I tank 2 at a time.

    My count could be off but it appears like 97 interrupts. Only 8 of those from reading this over had a cast time of 1.0 sec the rest were 0.5. So yeah ... It's a huge problem

    [Sat Oct 05 00:02:41 2019] Your Valiant Defense Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:02:48 2019] Your Consecration Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:02:56 2019] Your Disruptive Persecution VIII spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:03:05 2019] Your Remembrance Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:03:52 2019] Your Consecration Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:05:10 2019] Your Valiant Defense Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:16:56 2019] Your Spider's Bite Poison X spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:18:07 2019] Your Crush of E'Ci spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:18:15 2019] Your Remembrance Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:18:34 2019] Your Disruptive Persecution VIII spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:18:46 2019] Your Remembrance Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:19:16 2019] Your Crush of E'Ci spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:21:37 2019] Your Crush of E'Ci spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:28:11 2019] Your Brilliant Exoneration Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:29:33 2019] Your Protective Devotion spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:30:44 2019] Your Burst of Morninglight spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:37:08 2019] Your Brilliant Exoneration Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:37:29 2019] Your Disruptive Persecution VIII spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:38:09 2019] Your Preservation of Rodcet Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:38:27 2019] Your Lesser Yaulp IV spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:40:11 2019] Your Harmonious Blessing spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:40:33 2019] Your Disruptive Persecution VIII spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:42:21 2019] Your Sanctimonious Audacity spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:44:09 2019] Your Vampiric Aura spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:44:52 2019] Your Preservation of Rodcet Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:45:02 2019] Your Consecration Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:45:49 2019] Your Disruptive Persecution VIII spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:46:59 2019] Your Remembrance Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:47:29 2019] Your Crush of E'Ci spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:47:33 2019] Your Disruptive Persecution VIII spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:47:58 2019] Your Brilliant Exoneration Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:48:38 2019] Your Disruptive Persecution VIII spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:53:47 2019] Your Icesliver Chill spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:58:36 2019] Your Disruptive Persecution VIII spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 00:59:48 2019] Your Brilliant Exoneration Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 01:00:37 2019] Your Brilliant Exoneration Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 15:18:24 2019] Your Disruptive Persecution VIII spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 15:21:08 2019] Your Brilliant Exoneration Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 15:29:03 2019] Your Necromantic Curse spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 15:29:05 2019] Your Necromantic Curse spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 15:29:09 2019] Your Icesliver Chill spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 15:34:40 2019] Your Consecration Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 15:40:45 2019] Your Brilliant Exoneration Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 15:41:57 2019] Your Lesser Yaulp IV spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 15:42:04 2019] Your Disruptive Persecution VIII spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 15:42:48 2019] Your Crush of E'Ci spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 15:42:55 2019] Your Refute for Honor spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 15:44:35 2019] Your Disruptive Persecution VIII spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 15:45:09 2019] Your Brilliant Exoneration Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 15:48:12 2019] Your Consecration Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 15:50:05 2019] Your Expiation Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 15:50:10 2019] Your Remembrance Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 15:50:54 2019] Your Brilliant Exoneration Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 15:51:03 2019] Your Consecration Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 15:51:42 2019] Your Brilliant Exoneration Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 15:51:56 2019] Your Refute for Honor spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 15:56:53 2019] Your Brilliant Exoneration Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 16:00:58 2019] Your Disruptive Persecution VIII spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 16:08:14 2019] Your Brilliant Exoneration Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 16:08:19 2019] Your Protective Devotion spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 16:09:09 2019] Your Burst of Morninglight spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 16:11:34 2019] Your Protective Devotion spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 16:11:53 2019] Your Protective Devotion spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 16:15:49 2019] Your Harmonious Blessing spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 16:17:42 2019] Your Disruptive Persecution VIII spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 16:21:14 2019] Your Shackles of Tunare II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 16:23:55 2019] Your Consecration Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 16:26:24 2019] Your Disruptive Persecution VIII spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 16:26:26 2019] Your Disruptive Persecution VIII spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 16:29:24 2019] Your Disruptive Persecution VIII spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 16:31:13 2019] Your Brilliant Exoneration Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 16:32:05 2019] Your Disruptive Persecution VIII spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 16:32:26 2019] Your Refute for Honor spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 16:32:47 2019] Your Brilliant Exoneration Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 16:34:37 2019] Your Disruptive Persecution VIII spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 16:36:40 2019] Your Disruptive Persecution VIII spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 23:13:20 2019] Your Brilliant Exoneration Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 23:15:17 2019] Your Shackles of Tunare II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 23:15:43 2019] Your Remembrance Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 23:16:07 2019] Your Consecration Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 23:16:19 2019] Your Brilliant Exoneration Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 23:20:37 2019] Your Consecration Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 23:21:13 2019] Your Consecration Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 23:21:40 2019] Your Disruptive Persecution VIII spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 23:24:22 2019] Your Remembrance Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 23:29:52 2019] Your Brilliant Exoneration Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 23:33:18 2019] Your Remembrance Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 23:34:03 2019] Your Brilliant Exoneration Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 23:34:17 2019] Your Refute for Honor spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 23:36:10 2019] Your Remembrance Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 23:37:17 2019] Your Shackles of Tunare II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 23:42:12 2019] Your Burst of Morninglight spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 23:44:46 2019] Your Protective Devotion spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 23:46:23 2019] Your Remembrance Rk. II spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 23:48:14 2019] Your Crush of E'Ci spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 23:48:59 2019] Your Disruptive Persecution VIII spell is interrupted.
    [Sat Oct 05 23:52:56 2019] Your Preservation of Rodcet Rk. II spell is interrupted.

    YMMV - however I'd like to see comparable SK logs
    Allayna likes this.
  7. Troutfest Augur

  8. shiftie Augur

    Steadfast will: 100% chance to endure what would otherwise be a stunning melee attack, from any angle, without being stunned.

    The interrupts are not from melee attacks in the general sense but from the physics of the game causing a push from the Damage of the attack pushing the player in the process. If you leave a mob hitting you and those hits connect it will push you across the zone if you survive long enough to watch it happen. Some mobs/zones put you on ice skates.

    Being an ogre hasn't mattered since underfoot.
    Troutfest and Allayna like this.
  9. Allayna Augur

    Xalgoz Bite - You listed the group tap...that you yourself said you don't load. Vicious Bite of Chaos AA is instant though....

    Insidious Denial - I'm perfectly fine with them being different, which they very much are different from Valiant. Valiant is 0.5, not able to be hastened and does AE witness aggro hate with a HTT heal. Insidious does way more. AE dmg, AE hate, Self heal from EACH target, hastened to 0.4 seconds. (hoping that is an oversight by the devs that this is hastened and valiant is not)

    Spear of Tylix - Not a heal/lifetap, not sure why you included it in your comparison of heals/lifetaps.

    Assuming you didn't include Dissident because you think they're equal as well.

    [57933/13751] Dissident Bite 6
    Classes: SHD/250
    Skill: Alteration
    Mana: 100
    Target: Single
    Range: 300'
    Resist: Magic -306
    Reflectable: Yes
    Trigger Spell DS: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 0s, Recast: 6s
    Hate: 24712
    1: Decrease Current HP by 64152
    2: Return 120% of Damage as HP, Max Per Hit: 192457
    3: Stacking: Twincast Blocker

    [57880/10755] Dissident Force Stun 6
    Classes: PAL/250
    Skill: Evocation
    Mana: 100
    Target: Single
    Range: 300'
    Resist: Magic -153
    Reflectable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 0s, Recast: 6s
    Hate: 12355
    1: Stun for 6s up to level 115
    2: Stacking: Twincast Blocker

    [57886/10756] Dissident Force Healing 6
    Classes: PAL/250
    Skill: Alteration
    Mana: 100
    Target: Caster Group
    Range: 300', AE Range: 100'
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 0s, Recast: 6s
    1: Increase Current HP by 19739
    2: Stacking: Twincast Blocker

    I'm fine with them being very different in their actions as well. Lore wise they fit. I think the level for the stun we can use once a min should be higher than 115 though, since it's unlikely to upgraded this year.

    The Touch of T'Vem and Dire spells are the same cast time as our HTT lines Censure and Admonish. The difference, ours have a negative hate mod. The Dire/Touch you listed have a much higher DPS/Lifetap value as well. I know your counter-argument about pally healing mods...like SKs don't have lifetap mods o_O

    Touch of Hemofax - You listed a buff. No SKs are using a 3s "lifetap" as a heal. You all use your Holgresh Elder Beads, Touch it, Refute it, Spear/Hateful Bargain to get your Gift of Hemofax (25% hate mod and HP), (purpose here is the AC buff), and CToD on before engage. The discussion is about cast times while getting beat on...let's not pretend you're casting this mid event.

    You left out Hateful Bargain - AE aggro/DMG

    [55790/13742] Hateful Bargain Rk. III
    Classes: SHD/109
    Skill: Conjuration
    Mana: 100
    Restriction: Mana Above 10 Percent
    Target: Caster PB
    AE Range: 40'
    Resist: Disease -100
    Reflectable: Yes
    Trigger Spell DS: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 0.75s, Recast: 30s, Timer: 5, Rest: 1.5s
    Hate: 24840
    Recourse: Hateful Reflection
    1: Increase Hate by 1
    2: Decrease Current HP by 6467

    You read that right, almost 25K AE hate, 0.6s cast, 30s recast.

    Not able to do damage because of CC requirements? It's okay you can use Revulsion.

    [55778/13714] Revulsion Rk. III
    Classes: SHD/109
    Skill: Conjuration
    Mana: 236
    Target: Caster PB
    AE Range: 50'
    Resist: Unresistable
    Reflectable: No
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 3s, Recast: 30s, Rest: 1.5s
    Hate: 10498
    1: Increase Hate by 1

    AE hate by 10K, non-dmg for those mezzed mobs. 1.5s cast with a 30s recast.

    So 3 independent AE spell abilities. 3 AE AA instant cast hate abilities.

    You moved on to the paladins at this point without addressing the terror line. You address it somewhat at the end of your post, so I'll speak to it here. You list that terrors are instant, they are, they are also don't share timers, not a big issue as I'd think less of you as an SK if you needed 2 terrors. Comparing terrors to crushes, you neglected the 10X mana cost for crushes, plus a 0.4s hastened cast time, and limitations of loading 2 max and weak damage. I've been pretty vocal about not needing crushes to hold aggro on single target.

    Censure/Admonish - Simply need their negative hate mod removed and given a slight boost in damage and hastened to 0.5 base. I'd be fine with the concession that all the touch line gets the same treatment.

    Burst of Morninglight - I know we are getting an improvement to direct heals in the next patch to make them all work like LoH does now, in that they will be HTT. So a 0.25 s quick heal will most definitely be added to my line for survival. It may take the place of Admonish, honestly. Not going to discount the power involved in this improvement as it allows us great versatility in group game as the MT, raid game as the MT or back up tank and pass through healing the MT...

    Brilliant takes away from aggro and in the time it's cast, self healing. So you can add the 0.4s cast time from Brilliant to any heal we would cast.

    Force of Disruption is also a nice AA ability with a short refresh. I only wish it wasn't timer locked to our Divine Stun (repositioning AA ability). That'd be like you hitting Explosion and it graying out Unbridled Strike.

    Expiation is self only - But it is basically a CH that has a long refresh. It is hard to argue keeping this spell with the changes to burst incoming.

    What ToT heals are 0.5s for paladin? You're referring to Valiant which we compared to Insidious, Insidious is 0.1s faster.

    Something we didn't mention is Protective Devotion - 1s cast, does not hasten. (Like Valiant doesn't)

    This is completely false. Our self healing is equal in regards to Censure/Admonish compared to Touch/Dire. Again, you have the advantage on the rest.

    Sojero - it is clear you don't actually take the time to play the paladin or research the abilities you compare. The playability of the two classes is completely different. You don't have to spam taps on an SK to survive, it's actually a detriment because you aren't swinging (healing), if you try that on a paladin, you're dead and the monk has aggro....
  10. sojero Augur


    I wont lie I do not pull 1 at a time, after the nerf I usually pull around 6 at a time. They significantly took down our dps.

    But SK see a ton of interrupts as well

    /GU Combined: A Bloodmoon darkfist in 2002s, 440.5m @220010 | Sojero + pets 440.4m@(220.0k in 2002s)

    92 interrupts

    [Fri Sep 27 16:45:49 2019] Your Insidious Denial Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 16:46:20 2019] Your Touch of T`Vem Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 16:46:24 2019] Your Dire Testimony Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 16:46:31 2019] Your Insidious Denial Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 16:46:54 2019] Your Insidious Denial Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 16:48:04 2019] Your Insidious Denial Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 16:48:09 2019] Your Touch of Lutzen Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 16:48:12 2019] Your Insidious Denial Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 16:48:15 2019] Your Hateful Bargain Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 16:48:53 2019] Your Hateful Bargain Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 16:49:04 2019] Your Chattering Bones XIX spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 16:49:35 2019] Your Hateful Bargain Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 16:49:38 2019] Your Dire Testimony Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 16:49:42 2019] Your Dire Testimony Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 16:49:43 2019] Your Dire Testimony Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 16:49:52 2019] Your Touch of T`Vem Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 16:49:58 2019] Your Touch of Lutzen Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 16:50:02 2019] Your Insidious Denial Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 16:50:16 2019] Your Touch of T`Vem Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 16:50:46 2019] Your Fingers of Flame spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 16:51:21 2019] Your Insidious Denial Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 16:51:36 2019] Your Touch of T`Vem Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 16:54:05 2019] Your Hateful Bargain Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 16:54:42 2019] Your Hateful Bargain Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 16:57:41 2019] Your Touch of Lutzen Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 16:58:35 2019] Your Touch of Lutzen Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 16:58:36 2019] Your Insidious Denial Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 16:58:37 2019] Your Insidious Denial Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 16:58:37 2019] Your Insidious Denial Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 16:58:45 2019] Your Touch of T`Vem Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 16:58:48 2019] Your Touch of T`Vem Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 16:59:09 2019] Your Insidious Denial Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 16:59:41 2019] Your Insidious Denial Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 16:59:45 2019] Your Touch of Lutzen Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:00:23 2019] Your Touch of T`Vem Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:01:55 2019] Your Touch of T`Vem Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:02:04 2019] Your Hateful Bargain Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:02:08 2019] Your Touch of Lutzen Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:02:23 2019] Your Touch of Lutzen Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:02:24 2019] Your Touch of Lutzen Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:03:39 2019] Your Insidious Denial Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:03:57 2019] Your Dire Testimony Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:10:03 2019] Your Touch of Lutzen Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:10:46 2019] Your Insidious Denial Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:10:51 2019] Your Touch of T`Vem Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:10:53 2019] Your Touch of Lutzen Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:10:56 2019] Your Touch of Lutzen Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:10:57 2019] Your Touch of Lutzen Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:10:58 2019] Your Touch of Lutzen Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:11:31 2019] Your Touch of T`Vem Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:11:32 2019] Your Touch of Lutzen Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:12:11 2019] Your Insidious Denial Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:12:50 2019] Your Hateful Bargain Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:12:55 2019] Your Insidious Denial Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:13:11 2019] Your Insidious Denial Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:13:12 2019] Your Insidious Denial Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:13:18 2019] Your Scourge Skin VI spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:13:20 2019] Your Insidious Denial Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:13:28 2019] Your Insidious Denial Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:13:32 2019] Your Hateful Bargain Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:14:15 2019] Your Touch of Lutzen Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:14:34 2019] Your Touch of T`Vem Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:14:35 2019] Your Touch of T`Vem Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:14:42 2019] Your Hateful Bargain Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:16:59 2019] Your Hateful Bargain Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:17:00 2019] Your Hateful Bargain Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:17:27 2019] Your Insidious Denial Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:17:53 2019] Your Dire Testimony Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:18:13 2019] Your Insidious Denial Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:18:17 2019] Your Dire Testimony Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:18:18 2019] Your Dire Testimony Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:18:32 2019] Your Touch of Lutzen Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:18:54 2019] Your Touch of Lutzen Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:19:17 2019] Your Touch of Lutzen Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:20:22 2019] Your Touch of T`Vem Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:20:31 2019] Your Dire Testimony Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:20:34 2019] Your Insidious Denial Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:20:47 2019] Your Touch of Lutzen Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:20:53 2019] Your Dire Testimony Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:20:54 2019] Your Dire Testimony Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:20:57 2019] Your Insidious Denial Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:21:03 2019] Your Dire Testimony Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:21:17 2019] Your Touch of Lutzen Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:21:23 2019] Your Insidious Denial Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:21:34 2019] Your Insidious Denial Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:21:45 2019] Your Insidious Denial Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:21:59 2019] Your Touch of T`Vem Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:23:21 2019] Your Insidious Denial Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:23:45 2019] Your Insidious Denial Rk. III spell is interrupted.
    [Fri Sep 27 17:24:19 2019] Your Insidious Denial Rk. III spell is interrupted.



    Combined: A Bloodmoon darkfist on 9/27/2019

    Sojero - 695 -- took out all the instant and prco stuff so only things that can be interrupted

    --- Black Steel - 4
    --- Blessing of Unity - 4
    --- Chattering Bones XIX - 3
    --- Claw of Frost - 8
    --- Dire Testimony Rk. III - 87
    --- Fingers of Flame - 8
    --- Hateful Bargain Rk. III - 70
    --- Insidious Denial Rk. III - 246
    --- Lich Sting - 4
    --- Necromantic Curse - 8
    --- Rousing Consumption - 4
    --- Scourge Skin VI - 3
    --- Touch of Lutzen Rk. III - 145
    --- Touch of T`Vem Rk. III - 92
    --- Vector of Sickness II - 9




    with all the instant and procs etc
    1415 casts
    241 resists
    14 fizles


    Combined: A Bloodmoon darkfist on 9/27/2019

    Sojero - 1415
    --- Banestrike - 15
    --- Black Steel - 4
    --- Blessing of Unity - 4
    --- Brell's Sacred Stone Balm - 110
    --- Burst of Flames VIII - 70
    --- Chattering Bones XIX - 3
    --- Claw of Frost - 8
    --- Crimson/Carmine/Scarlet/Claret Rage - 2
    --- Dire Testimony Rk. III - 87
    --- Dissident Fang - 28
    --- Encroaching Darkness Ena - 12
    --- Encroaching Darkness VI - 0
    --- Explosion of Hatred VI - 1
    --- Fingers of Flame - 8
    --- First Spire of the Reavers IV - 3
    --- Gift of the Quick Spear I - 3
    --- Hair-Raising Shriek - 0
    --- Harm Touch XXIX - 2
    --- Hateful Bargain Rk. III - 70
    --- Insidious Denial Rk. III - 246
    --- Jann's Light - 93
    --- Leech Touch II - 1
    --- Leechcurse Disc - 1
    --- Leeching Embrace - 1
    --- Lich Sting - 4
    --- Livianus' Decay - 0
    --- Mental Fright Strike III - 92
    --- Necromantic Curse - 8
    --- Refute for Power Rk. III - 8
    --- Rousing Consumption - 4
    --- Scourge Skin VI - 3
    --- Shroud of the Krellnakor Strike III - 112
    --- Soul Carapace/Shield/Guard - 5
    --- T`Vyl's Resolve III - 3
    --- Terror of Kra`Du Rk. III - 10
    --- Terror of Narus Rk. III - 9
    --- Thought Leech VIII - 2
    --- Touch of Lutzen Rk. III - 145
    --- Touch of T`Vem Rk. III - 92
    --- Touch of the Cursed XXX - 101
    --- Vector of Sickness II - 9
    --- Vicious Bite of Chaos XI - 32
    --- Visage of Death VII - 3
    --- Visage of Decay VII - 3
  11. Allayna Augur

    Got a new parse with the same lineup tonight. The mob I was tanking with the top 5 DPS.

    /GU A throne guardian in 239s, 2,000.0m @8368187 | #1 Berserker + pets 117.6m@492.0k (568.0k in 207s) [5.88%] {G} | #2 Necromancer + pets 94246k@394.3k (457.5k in 206s) [4.71%] {G} | #3 Monk 87287k@365.2k (404.1k in 216s) [4.36%] | #4 BeastPet + pets 85159k@356.3k (383.6k in 222s) [4.26%] | #5 Necromancer + pets 83645k@350.0k (394.6k in 212s) [4.18%] {G}

    /GU Tanking summary for: Allayna | Total Melee | Damage: 9536063 | Avg hit: 29162 | Attempts: 464 | Riposted: 76/464 [16.38%] | Defended: 76/464 [16.38%] | Missed: 61/388 [15.72%] | Hits: 327/388 [84.28%] | Real Hits: 327/327 [100%]

    It's not that the DPS aren't good at generating hate o_O odd way to say that btw. It's that our tanks know how to hold aggro.
  12. Allayna Augur

    @ Sojero - SK tanking 6 sees less interrupts than a pally tanking 1-2....appreciate the honesty.
  13. sojero Augur

    I included xalgoz bite because if i didnt someone would have brough it up..... like you and tried saying i leave something on the table.

    valiant and insidious are pretty much equal, insidious has drawbacks so that i have to de mem it at times, valiant has no drawbacks at all, all in all I count them as equal, my opion and i will stick to it.


    Because whulf was talking about it

    thats right


    Wasnt gonna say anything about them they both do good healing and decent dps. i agree that pally negative hate mod should be taken off.

    Thanks for pointing out what I already said with less wasted space


    I dont know of any sk that uses hateful other than soloing (multiple mobs) or in a AE group. I dont and have not seen an sk use it on raids as it is in the same lockout as spear. also comes with that pesky mez limitation.
    I dont load revulsion because 30 sec recast and 3 second cast, when your doing ae agro and have a ton of mobs on you, 3 sec is forever. Only time I ever load that spell is when were doing the unbalace ach and feather is poping out adds faster than my aa come up.


    Should have kept reading,I addressed terror at the end, also I do load 2 terrors as a lot of times my adds are the first targeted and I want to make sure that dps can go balls to the walls and not have to hold back, safer for them, and I dont use ae agro at that time cause I could pull adds off others when I dont need to. As to you not using crushes, that is your choice, but you cannot discount their power. I believe they should do more damage (have said so in this thread) and I also said the mana is the biggest issue I have with the pally class.


    I agree the neg hate mod needs to go, pally is a tank.


    How is brilliant decreasing agro? I dont see any hatemod on it, so its 5k hate.



    No I mis-tpyed on this one, i meant they have a 5 second refresh vs sk 10.5 second refresh, and got their refresh timers and cast timers mixed up in my head


    So you dont have any other healing abilities at all? no bursts, grief line, group heals, splash, etc etc etc

    [/quote]
    O really? I don't have to spam taps to live, please tell me moar

    You do realize our weapons are made with our 1 second cast times taken into consideration. That is why our delays are so long. The only time casting that I know of is a detriment is during HHE effects.

    Again, I am sorry.
    Allayna likes this.
  14. sojero Augur



    Its not apples to apples, closest I could give, but Shiftie asked for a log and I gladly oblige him. I believe it points out that both knights have issues with interrupts, not like the game mechanics effect one differently than the other.

    some variables, my ac is gonna be way higher so I take less hits(raid vs group), and thus less interrupts. I pulled 63 mobs in total, not sure how many he did. also shield flash/deflection can make a difference, don't think I used either, don't know if he did.
    Allayna and shiftie like this.
  15. shiftie Augur

    He has higher ac more misses and the hits are mitigated so less push from game physics due to less dmg on the distribution, but the issue then favors instant spells and passive healing. Like for like you can see there is a problem, and the last time it was addressed I think was voa when elidroth looked into it.

    Every few years it crops up and goes without a fix. The easy solution is to give us a few instant spells I’m ok with having to channel heals as that adds to the flavor of the game through randomness. However we should be able to aggro at will so that when we have to heal we don’t miss the aggro spell then miss the heal then recast the heal to recast the aggro 4 casts later.

    I’d also like to see blessing of life see a much larger increase it still has a very low proc rate but the base heal hasn’t kept up this was masked by healing light when it would proc off of many more things. Since that was “nerfed” the glaring issues with blessing of life and the lack of aa trees outside of crit heal and crit base. Maybe a 8 min reuse 1 min (modded) duration of a %increase mod to proc rate or bake it into armor of the inquisitor

    Sojero beat me to it
    Allayna and Maedhros like this.
  16. Zunar Augur

    Why not ask for an ability that passively modifies all heal agro for paladins?
    Maybe with a toggle option.
    That could be both dangerous and interesting and would be used with caution ;)
  17. shiftie Augur

    Because if we can’t cast we can’t heal and would still have problems casting aggro.

    Right now
    Cast
    Gcd cast force
    Cast
    Gcd
    Cast
    Gcd
    Cast
    Gcd cast force

    That’s the aggro dump if any one of those spells need to be a heal you replace an aggro spell with a heal unless it’s valiant or a tott negative spell, these heals are underwhelming even with mods if you catch a spike and you switch to a self heal. If either are resisted because they have terrible resist mods you are down aggro and behind on heals.

    Being able to guarantee a cast because it is instant means you can rotate if you like heal aggro heal aggro

    In the case of these interrupts
    Aggro interrupt
    Aggro successful
    Aggro successful
    Heal successful

    The interrupt is 1 sec cast due to double casting +gcd it causes issues it is too late for my brain to articulate and I’m probably already rambling
  18. Wulfhere Augur

    You may be right wrt Dev's thinking, although I for one don't want more no-DMG spell gems (unless paladins get a large melee DPS improvement and I think that more unlikely).

    I have another and simpler idea to address the paladin problem of spell interrupts while tanking. Instead of lobbying for 0s cast time spells of choice, how about Paladins ask for new ranks of Quick Damage and Improved Stuns AA?

    Quick Damage (5)
    Level 95 TBM
    1: Increase Spell Haste by 20%
    2: Limit Effect: Current HP
    3: Limit Type: Detrimental
    4: Limit Max Duration: 0s
    5: Limit Max Casting Time: 2.999s
    6: Limit Max Level: 253 (lose 100% per level)
    This passive ability reduces the cast time of direct damage spells with an initial cast time of less than 3 seconds by 20%.

    Improved Stuns (3)
    Level 105 EoK
    1: Increase Spell Haste by 50%
    2: Limit Effect: Stun
    3: Limit Max Level: 253 (lose 100% per level)
    4: Limit Min Mana Cost: 1
    5: Reduce Timer by 2s
    6: Limit Effect: Stun
    7: Limit Max Level: 253 (lose 100% per level)
    8: Limit Min Mana Cost: 1
    9: Limit Spells: Exclude Dichotomic Force
    This passive ability reduces the cast time of your stun spells by 50%.

    If paladins get another couple of ranks then the Devs (Dzarn) can directly address the issue of cast times on core tanking spells and retroactively. They can exclude specific spells (like Dicho above) and more. The question is by how much?

    I would want enough spell haste to get nukes down a total of 60%, e.g Crush currently 0.5s (0.4s) to 0.5s (0.2s). Let's divide that into 2 ranks of AA yielding:

    For stuns, the current AA spell haste is at 50% and a 2s recast timer reduction. Lets get these down similarly from current 1.0s (0.5s) to 1.0s (0.2s).

    Proposal:

    Quick Damage Rk 6
    1: Increase Spell Haste by 40%

    Quick Damage Rk 7
    1: Increase Spell Haste by 60%

    Improved Stuns Rk 4
    1: Increase Spell Haste by 65%

    Improved Stuns Rk 5
    1: Increase Spell Haste by 80%

    The one paladin "tanking" spell these 2 AA do not improve is the Protective Devotion line.
    A new rank 4 of Quick Buff AA could be added to specifically include this line and grant them spell haste.
  19. Warpeace Augur



    So Paladins are the reactive style tank in a sense. Our primary mitigation tool is our ability to heal. We have to absorb damage then replace a damage or agro spell with a heal to counter that. If our ability to heal is constantly being interrupted in one way or another than our mitigation is not working as intended.

    People are talking about game mechanics not class envy issues in this case.

    "Massive healing advantage over Warriors" and "instant cast abilities" need to be put into context and not just thrown out there like oh you want my stuff.

    So, if a Paladin is forced to heal to mitigate damage then just about everyone that plays Everquest would expect them to have a healing advantage over a Warrior when tanking. Now instant cast abilities will almost always have an advantage over abilities that require a cast time. Maybe lower the cast time to instant or better yet near instant. Maybe they could keep the cast time but make it so it can not be interrupted might also be better so there is still a cast time involved?

    Honestly there are some passthrough heals I would be happy with seeing retain their cast time and be made so they can not be interrupted. I think that would allow the game mechanics to function as intended while boosting Paladin survivability from our primary mitigation tools, heals.
  20. Wulfhere Augur

    Importantly, this change may be the only fix that devs intend wrt surviving interrupts (and quality of life). This would mean paladins might have to dedicate another spell gem or 2 for Bursts (more no-DMG yuck). This also exacerbates +hate generation (as Shiftie noted).

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