Paladin type 5 augs

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Spirits, Apr 5, 2018.

  1. Spirits New Member

    Hellos all. I'm a cleric main but I love the paladin class and community. I enjoyed meeting some of you on Beta :)

    I've heard a lot of different advice and I'm about to address my type 5 augs on my tank (Sprouts: https://eq.magelo.com/profile/3722032). I'm about half EoK raid geared and half RoS group armor with a bit of EoK group stuff left that I should polish up asap!

    I use my tank for RoS group content and have been able to complete the expansion. (still have to do VP but have my key!) I don't plan to raid with him.

    My main confusion is: I should be putting Dex, Agi or Sta in my type 5 augs? Or should I use a combination of the above? I would always appreciate any other advice if you see any embarrassing gaps in my setup :)

    Thank you for your time,

    Spirits
  2. Maedhros High King

    My vote is stamina augs for a fully raid geared toon.
    For a group geared toon I can see putting more emphasis on agility.
    Hard to justify dex augs at this point.

    For me, more so than ever, I am stacking stamina.
    It seems like a no-brainer to me when you look at the Scale Touched Celerity and Resilience.
    45 of the primary stat on either, but when you look at the secondary stat at 22 there is a clear edge to the Resilience augs with agility, versus dex/str on the Celerity aug.
  3. p2aa Augur

    Hsta for a tank raiding in latest content.
    There are been numerous discussions on this yet on this forum, just scroll down.

    Hdex for a tank doing group content imo, and this is why I think it's better than Hagi.
    The avoidance checks work in group content.
    HDex increase riposte and parry skills, Hagi increase dodge skill and miss % (I assume "Computed Defense" of AC part is measured in the miss %)
    So both are roughly equal as they increase each 2 avoidance checks.

    HDex increases your DPS (accuracy + crit %) so you kill faster the mob in group content.
    HAgi has an impact on your "Mitigation AC", the value used when you get hit, for how much you get hit
    But the impact is tiny. For example if you take a tank going full Hagi and having 500 more Hagi, per Dzar formula, his bonus compared to the other tank will be (500/20) x Class softcap, knight softcap is 0,33, so + 8,25.
    So Hdex is the best choice in group content. Hagi is another good choice.
    Whatever the choice you retain in group content, go fully in this Hstat, don't balance them.
    Mobs in group content have a max Hstrikethrough value that have maybe a chance to be overcome with any avoidance skill, but you need max values in this avoidance skill to have a chance to compete with this.
    And to get max value in one avoidance skill, you need massively boost this skill, so type 5 and type 7/8 augs of the same Hstat.

    If raid mobs avoidance skills and miss % stuff would work, the debate HDex versus Hagi would be interesting, would need to parse to compare parry + riposte rate versus dodge and miss rate, and keep the stat that would make you avoid the most. Would depend I guess if devs would reduce rather Hstrikethrough (which is used against parry, riposte and dodge) or rather Attack of mobs (I assume the avoidance AC of players is checked against Attack of the opponent, or it's rather Normal strikethrough ?)
    moogs and Dreadmore like this.
  4. Lianeb Augur

    I have yet to see a parse that would swing a decision one way or the other. Stacking agl will increase your mod2 avoidance and your avoidance AC. Stacking sta will increase your hp and your melee mitigation mod2.

    With one you’re going to get hit less but the hits will be higher and the other you get hit more but the hits are lower. Over the course of a fight they balance out as far as damage taken gos. A lot of raid tanks these days favor sta because of the other non hit damage in raids.
    Though most would agree that you should pick one to focus on.
  5. josh Augur


    The softcap is not applied to avoidance AC. That is only for mitigation AC. in addition, The agi added by HAgi also increases your avoidance AC. It also increases your avoidance stat which increases your avoidance AC a bit more.

    It's not that hard to get an idea of how much one point of HAgi inceases your avoidance AC. take type 5's off and divide your loss in avoidance ac by your loss in HAgi. it's somewhere around .78 per HAgi. so 500 HAgi would increase your avoidance AC by 390 ish
  6. p2aa Augur

    Reread what I wrote. I spoke only of the impact of Hagi on "Mitigation AC" in the example I have given.
    I'm counting Avoidance AC in one of the avoidance check of Hagi,which make it 2 avoidance checks like Hdex. I was looking then at the other benefits of HDex / Hagi because both are each 2 avoidance checks. And this is why I looked at the impact of Hagi on Mitigation AC and I have made this example.
    All of this is just a repeat of what I wrote.
  7. Ofearl Slayer of all things Stupid

    I would really like to get a full set of each agi/sta/dex and parse them. But the number of missions required to run that would seem like total crap shoot. Maybe if the augs were able to be sold back...

    Maybe i’ll just go back to tbm and buy a full set of each and test them.... wish combat dummies would fight back. Hahaha!

    But to the OP, I run mainly agi, tossed in a handfull of sta for a few extra hps. Run the 50 dex on the 2 hander etc. I was trying to shoot for my hero stats to be at a certain point. So time will tell.
  8. Zarzac Augur

    I disagree with the above comment on balance.

    I would absolutely balance to the point where you can hit any milestones (like at 1200) for those bonus stats.

    Other than that, if I were a Pally, I'd probably run primarily stamina augs.
  9. fransisco Augur

    Why does everyone say dex isn't great for a group tank? Doesn't that still increase your parry/riposte significantly? (I know raiding is a different story and ignoring that here).
  10. Fohpo Augur

    Could always do it with the TBM ones, if that's still a no go for you maybe I can help. Recently did TBM progression with box crew and I'm swimming in Remnants, I could buy any sets I don't have (thanks FV for not letting me waste them too!) and try to run the data as an SK.
  11. Ofearl Slayer of all things Stupid

    Added up between 3 toons im currently sitting around 48k rem’s so enough to buy 2 full sets, then sell em back and can buy the 3rd set. Just trying to figure out what mob I can let beat on me long that with a healer merc or useing the shaman to heal, plus not riposte it to death...

    I know Orbital101 aka Gooduren did this but as a warrior. So knight vs warrior will be different. Would love to also run these augs during a raid to see also how it parses...
  12. Ofearl Slayer of all things Stupid

    Ok here is what I did today, well just now. I tried to run for 10 mins give or take, but some mobs died just to riposte.

    Now I wish I had full Ring Of Scale type 5's but only had then for the agility test. Had a handful of the stamina one for that one. Yo can see my gear in my signature link.

    1st Parse is sword/board combo:
    Hero Agi: 1771
    Displayed AC: 7444/3620
    HPs: 292594
    Tanking summary for: Ofearl --- Total Melee --- Damage: 5797443 --- Avg hit: 9996 --- Attempts: 964 --- Riposted: 47/964 [4.88%] --- Parried: 59/917 [6.43%] --- Dodged: 69/858 [8.04%] --- Blocked: 11/789 [1.39%] --- Defended: 186/964 [19.29%] --- Missed: 195/778 [25.06%] --- Hits: 583/778 [74.94%] --- Absorbed: 3/583 [0.51%] --- Real Hits: 580/583 [99.49%]

    Here is +agi again but in 2hander mode.
    Hero Agi: 1738
    Displayed AC: 6211/3593
    HPs: 289891
    Tanking summary for: Ofearl --- Total Melee --- Damage: 3991054 --- Avg hit: 11535 --- Attempts: 550 --- Riposted: 34/550 [6.18%] --- Parried: 32/516 [6.2%] --- Dodged: 24/484 [4.96%] --- Defended: 90/550 [16.36%] --- Missed: 114/460 [24.78%] --- Hits: 346/460 [75.22%] --- Real Hits: 346/346 [100%]

    Here is +dex sword/board:
    Hero Dex: 1567
    Displayed AC: 6211/3593
    HPs: 289076
    Tanking summary for: Ofearl --- Total Melee --- Damage: 6155204 --- Avg hit: 9880 --- Attempts: 954 --- Riposted: 65/954 [6.81%] --- Parried: 62/889 [6.97%] --- Dodged: 21/827 [2.54%] --- Blocked: 28/806 [3.47%] --- Defended: 176/954 [18.45%] --- Missed: 149/778 [19.15%] --- Hits: 629/778 [80.85%] --- Absorbed: 6/629 [0.95%] --- Real Hits: 623/629 [99.05%]

    Here is +dex 2hander mode:
    Hero Dex: 1571
    Displayed AC: 6201/3086
    HPs: 286452
    Tanking summary for: Ofearl --- Total Melee --- Damage: 4097455 --- Avg hit: 11608 --- Attempts: 492 --- Riposted: 33/492 [6.71%] --- Parried: 24/459 [5.23%] --- Dodged: 14/435 [3.22%] --- Defended: 71/492 [14.43%] --- Missed: 68/421 [16.15%] --- Hits: 353/421 [83.85%] --- Real Hits: 353/353 [100%]

    Here is +sta sword/board:
    Hero Sta: 1676
    Displayed AC: 7417/3120
    HPs: 296784
    Tanking summary for: Ofearl --- Total Melee --- Damage: 6104443 --- Avg hit: 9862 --- Attempts: 946 --- Riposted: 38/946 [4.02%] --- Parried: 46/908 [5.07%] --- Dodged: 32/862 [3.71%] --- Blocked: 55/830 [6.63%] --- Defended: 171/946 [18.08%] --- Missed: 154/775 [19.87%] --- Hits: 621/775 [80.13%] --- Absorbed: 2/621 [0.32%] --- Real Hits: 619/621 [99.68%]

    Here is +sta 2hander mode:
    Hero Sta: 1619
    Displayed AC: 6204/3114
    HPs: 293605
    Tanking summary for: Ofearl --- Total Melee --- Damage: 7944416 --- Avg hit: 12110 --- Attempts: 917 --- Riposted: 41/917 [4.47%] --- Parried: 32/876 [3.65%] --- Dodged: 35/844 [4.15%] --- Defended: 108/917 [11.78%] --- Missed: 153/809 [18.91%] --- Hits: 656/809 [81.09%] --- Real Hits: 656/656 [100%]

    Here is what I conclude from this.... All TBM augs for dex/sta test showed I tanked as well by numbers provided. All I did was agro the mob, hit with malo/slow off the shaman, I stood there till it was dead of 10 mins had lapsed.

    As you can see not much to really say, but pick one and go with it.
  13. fransisco Augur

    Whats the difference between hits and real hits?
    Not sure how much to compare the dex vs agi since the agi has 8 additional lvls of increases (200 higher).

    Can you do it where you have roughly the same amount of hdex vs hagi?
  14. Lianeb Augur

    Hits Minus Absorbed
    fransisco likes this.
  15. Ofearl Slayer of all things Stupid



    I'll sell back all of these tbm augs and see if I have enough left over to buy a set.

    not tonight tho
  16. Spiritss New Member

    So just an update...

    I appreciate everyone’s input. Seeing as I have no plans to use the paladin to raid, I went full Dexterity. I noticed a bump in both survivability and dps. It’s impossible to say this is strictly due to the increased dexterity because I also improved the overall gear, and maybe maintained or even improved agility and stamina as I upgraded augments. I also bumped AC a bit as I gained some other gear.

    The only conclusion I can come to is that the RoS group game is quite easily tanked with a dex based paladin with some EoK raid gear. (probably not many people with this combination of variables). I hope this helps someone in their decisions. :)

    Thanks again,

    Spirits
  17. Ofearl Slayer of all things Stupid


    Wont let me edit the other post, so here is the correct displayed AC.