Paladin Raid Tanking

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Defjam, Feb 3, 2019.

  1. Wulfhere Augur

    I disagree. Having a negative hate mod on Censure line helps counteract AE hate paladins generate from other means. This has saved me from those summoning ping pong situations more then once.
  2. Allayna Augur

    /alt activate 792

    =p

    Just frustrating that our dps/self healing through targets target has a hate redux mod. We're a tank, not a cleric.
  3. Wulfhere Augur

    Why? When have you ever cast Censure and apologized "oh darn, I lost aggro"? In any situation where you're tanking this spell is not going to reduce hate enough to make a difference. It's one of two negative hate jolts a paladin might cast and that has it's uses.

    It's like griping about feign death as an SK and wishing it didn't drop aggro cuz yer "a tank". Oh wait that has been fixed erh broken in the last patch. Harh!
  4. Chaosflux Augur

    Censure still provides more hate than the reduction, your about 1800 points in the positive direction (offhand, I might be off alittle). IE doesnt reduce hate, it just doesnt create as much as it could if it didnt have the mod.

    It also doesnt do for heal aggro because the deaggro on the heal portion doesnt work, and heal aggro accumulation changed along time ago.
  5. josh Augur


    no, it is an ae decrease in hate. this is very easy to test. get two mobs, let a merc build up some aggro on them, then put it on passive, then cast censure on one, the mercs percentage goes up, you lose hate on both mobs.

    I assume, this is because of the hate cap on heals. i forget what the number is but i know its less than the 4k hate mod on censure. So, the nuke on the mob generates 1k hate total after the hate mod, but then the heal generates something like -3k hate because of the heal hate cap. so you lose aggro even on the guy you nuked, but you lose even more aggro on the mobs you didn't nuke.
  6. Chaosflux Augur

    Did they finally fix pass thru heal code?! I missed that, my mistake it was broken for years
  7. Defjam Journeyman

    I'm definitely using Censure. My current main tank setup looks something like:

    1) Crush
    2) Censure
    3) Valiant
    4) Protective Devotion
    5) Refute for Honor
    6) Stun
    7) Stun
    8) Dissident
    9) Twincast
    10) Splash
    11) Group Heal (this rotates on occasions, group content I switch this and splash and put Consecration here)
    12) Preservation (Sometimes I flop this for Harmonious. I'm still not sure which one is better honestly)
    13) Steadfast

    For times I'm DPS'ing at the start and then switching to tanking, I remove 3-5 (sometimes 6,7 if not stunnable) and go full Consecration line. For General Reparm, I have been swapping 3-5 for consecration, 2 for Doctrine just be skeletons, and then full tank setup for snails. So far, still no aggro issues. I have a hard justifying currently switching my crush from the high damage crush to the aggro crush for that reason. I definitely noticed a large increase in my heal numbers by switching to using Censure and Protective all the time though. I finally got rid of my Wurmslayer and replaced it with a rune weapon, as well as getting the Frosty Gem in my Shield. Things are looking up!

    Any thoughts on Preservation vs Harmonious?
  8. tyrantula Elder

    Rank tanking - Preservation

    Group tanking - Harmonious (if tanking in RoS, don't bother)

    I don't play other than raiding now, so I may/may not have either up depending on what event.
  9. Wulfhere Augur

    For me, Preservation is always memorized.

    I trade out Harmonious for Force of Mercy when without a healer, as they have similar function.
  10. Wulfhere Augur

    Hmm, okay wait. I mixed up Protective and Preservation. What I said is true for Protective and Harmonious.

    For me, Preservation gets swapped out for Alliance. I'm either tanking or I'm doing DPS. In other words, I don't equate the spells given by Defjam. Those two spells are in different categories.
  11. Defjam Journeyman

    Sorry, but why would you place those two in different categories? They both cause additional hate production and add healing. I've found preservation to be better personally, but curious at why you don't think they're comparable.
  12. Wulfhere Augur

    Because I use them both together. What I mean by category is that I don't swap them for each other as you say you do. They aren't competing for the same spell gem in my spell set.

    Obvious categories are defined by cool down timers, like Stun vs Crush on Timer 5. Less obvious ones have to do with synergies and play styles. When I expect to be tanking, I memorize Preservation. If I have a healer, I also memorize Harmonious, otherwise Force of Mercy, because those two act similarly to provide more passive healing (that I want). This spell gem choice is 1 of 13 "categories" that make a spell set.
    Chaosflux likes this.
  13. Defjam Journeyman

    Worth trying it out! I'll probably swap one of the basic stuns out so I can keep the emergency heal of Dissident up.
  14. Wulfhere Augur

    I'm not a fan of Dicho line because of the long recast and the heals (level 250) are not focused by gear. I get more healing out of a second Wave or even Aurora, and use HoP, GoL, and LH for emergencies. I'm really happy with Gift of Life AA addition (not coincidentally with the priest alliance nerf) as a raid saving ability and hope for higher ranks in the future.
  15. Defjam Journeyman

    Gift of Life is so so so good. One of my favorite additions for sure.
  16. Metapsyche Augur

    Just wanted to post a new spell lineup that I’ve been trying out. This is what I’ve been using the past week or two for tanking—

    Spells 1-7 are all on the same spam key, 8 and 9 are also on a separate spam key. Please note that if there is server lag, you may not get to get 7. I personally play on a very fast internet connection and have not had issues getting to gem7, but it’s obviously not cast very often.

    1. Crush of Timo
    2. Crush of E’ci
    3. Force of Mercy (stun + hottot)
    4. Brilliant
    5. Valiant
    6. Protective
    7. Honor
    8. Wave
    9. Aurora
    10. Defiant
    11. Preservation
    12. Splash
    13. Sanctimonious (I may drop this one, it’s slightly underwhelming)

    Pretty easy play mode, spam your 1-7 multi-bind and press your 8-9 multibind when you need group heals...

    *shrugs*. I’m sure someone has a problem with this, but until they tell us what they’re doing we don’t care. :-D
  17. Chaosflux Augur

    Similar to what I did when I last raided, except I used Consecration line instead of force of Mercy. Generates more hate over a given period of time, refreshes faster, and does DPS. The faster refresh I found important given one Crush has a 24s recast, just incase.

    I usually split your 1 - 7 into 2 multibinds HOTT heals and the aggro/nukes on 2 separate keys, that allows some reactive usage of HOTT heals if necessary.

    But that's just a playstyle semantics argument.

    How often do you find yourself using Aurora in current content? I'd think Harmonious would be a higher value for overall return on cast opportunity investment, but I dont know.
  18. shiftie Augur

    Def consecration over mercy and brilliant should be cast first always so the twin is ticking down

    Drop defiant and sanct and load two self heals

    Drop aurora and add burst

    A dead paladin offers no heals rendering splash and wave useless. You should have self preservation above everything in a raid environment. With 2 self heals loaded you have at least 4-6 loh loaded for when ish hits the fan barring you have heal mods up.
  19. shiftie Augur

    Aurora has specific uses generally for assigned tasks ramp tank, primary or secondary healer roles or when you know an event. Because it also has no cool down it is a memspellset away from being loaded through a flash or da when you recognize it is needed
  20. Metapsyche Augur

    For a long multibind I’ll heavily argue against brilliant first. The snap Aggro on brilliant is non existent, I find I’m significantly more likely to keep Agro opening with double crushes.

    As for Mercy- my logic behind it Is pretty purely taking advantage of a multitude of AA’s that are otherwise useless to me lol. Procs group heal on stuns and increase crit for HoT affects.

    Personally I am a HUGE proponent of Defiant Stance. As a Paladin we’re the squishiest tank out there. Our only real claim to fame is being able to heal and receiving a ton of healing thru disc and aa’s. By stacking a couple things it’s kinda hilarious how much hp a little baby heal will hit us for. On that note I like to stack as much HP as possible. Last I checked my Paladin (normal raid buffs) is walking around at 370k hp. As long as I don’t forget to put my 2h away the chances of being rounded are slim to none.

    I think what I’m going to try next week is like some of you suggested- drop sanc for expiation. Personally I find the targeted heals to be too clumsy to effectively use outside of certain situations. For example I am a tower tank on T2.2 so I run merciful and burst on a multibind for that event because it’s very mana efficient for when my big dps decides to unbalance them and nuke our mana.

    I’m also thinking of switching back to a 6 spell multibind (dropping refute for honor) to add grief as a third LoH.

    To the question about aurora- it’s certainly an option to drop from the lineup in order to mem as needed. Again just my style, I heal a load. A typical night for me assuming no wipes i’m hitting roughly 2,000 spells cast in ~3 hours. It’s not uncommon (especially on meratas as I’m the ramp tank) to cast aurora 150+ times.

    I do like using an agro bind AND an htot bind, but I struggle to find something that works well for the agro bind that’s actually spammable due to cool downs. Crush, Crush, ... ?? I’d love some suggestions on that front. Well this post reads like an illiterate moron wrote it... I need more coffee lol. Thanks for everyone’s input.