Paladin future needs

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Redemption, Jul 18, 2018.

  1. Gnomereaper Augur

    Also, consider expanding Paladin races to Barbarian, because there are currently no larger race paladins.
  2. Wulfhere Augur

    Thanks for reading Dzarn.

    I hope this is on topic
    Live Update Bugs: 6/20/2018

    There is a two edged sword on this one since paladins tend to spam Valiant Defense in part to due cast time interrupt problems. If fixed it could generate SK levels of ae aggro which was hopefully always the intent.

    Great!

    Another broken mechanic for paladins that's been reported over the years is this bash issue. The AA for SPA 231 (Immobilizing Bash and Overpowering Strike) actually reduce a paladin's ability to interrupt via a bash because they increase the stun chance. The AA are hurting a paladin's chance to interrupt an NPC, especially stun immune ones, rather then improving it.

    When I was maxing these AA, I was mostly thinking about swarming and having riposte bashes reduce incoming DPS via more frequent stunning. As posted in other threads, e.g. Armor of Ardency line and paladin BP clickie subjects, short duration stuns actually are a detriment to the paladin. What happens is that the mobs eventually converge and are swinging at the same time. This increases the risk of a huge damage round that kills the paladin. So in fact these AA (and defensive stun procs) are undermining a paladin's ability to tank multiple mobs. If you could fix this area it would help tanks in general and paladins especially. Rescinding the AA works for me too.
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  3. ~Mills~ Augur


    I don't want to sidetrack this thread or overwhelm you but is there any shot of each class having an open thread or one on one time prior to beta? Similar to this thread. Or even beta opening a week early (probably something out of your hands) just for a one day chat about each class AA direction for like 45 minutes each?

    I know Aristo does spells and you guys all now have to wear many hats and are very busy but I think the community at large longs for at least some real time interaction regarding AA and spells. Even if its just to spitball and nothing actually comes from it.
    Maedhros, Spellfire and mmats like this.
  4. Qbert Gallifreyan

    • I see Flash of Light mentioned in this thread a few times. In that vein, and hearkening back to our old spells (undead fear), perhaps we could get a Flash of Light activated aa that is an accuracy debuff plus blind; but, if the target is undead, also has the chance to trigger the fearstun effect that is now on the Intimidation line (that we don't get).
    • Along those lines (dusty old spells): I would be happy to have a scaled-to-modern-day and regularly upgraded version of Divine Favor (level 55 rune).
    • I could go either way on our aura. Most of the other classes that got auras/traps have received additional/regular upgrades, but that doesn't necessarily mean we should as well. Perhaps at the very least we could get an echo version of our current aura. If a potential to update the aura does indeed exist, perhaps we could see something like . . . IF class <> PAL, THEN X (+heal modifier); IF class = PAL, THEN X + Y (where Y could be one of a variety of things, such as more heal modifier, ac, hp, innate spell resistance modifier, whatever).
    • I would like to see Helix of the Undying decoupled from the hate-over-time spells. I never used that spell line, and I don't really want to sacrifice a critical spell slot to memorize that spell. On a far less important, but similar, note: please give me back my Sense Undead aa :)
    • I would like to see an on-demand self-only Divine Intervention. I was pretty happy when Silent Piety was conceived as this (Depths of Darkhollow), but alas it did not make it to live that way.
    • Maybe some consideration could be given to letting hybrid classes have more spell gems than priests/casters. We have a wide variety of roles that we often fill simultaneously, and so many of our spell lines go unused for lack of room on the spell bar.
  5. Syylke_EMarr Augur

    Disclaimer: I play an SK, not a Pally so my ideas could be completely off-base. And I do not have full knowledge of that Pallies currently have so I may cover things that are already available.

    I agree that Pallies need some help in the mana regeneration area.

    Act of Valor - I would personally say to completely rework this. There is never* a good time for a tank to kill themselves. I was thinking that something like an effect that causes an AoE heal to pulse 5 times for a very large amount, while also draining 15-20% of the Pally's mana every pulse. Basically changing the "act of valor" from being a health sacrifice to a mana sacrifice. This would, of course, be contingent on the previous request for better mana regeneration.

    Lay on Hands - Would it be feasible/possible to make the base heal component equal to 105% (to cover Delay Death and other unconscious health amounts) of the Paladin's health? Then add the HoT and DI with increasing values per rank. Maybe even a few counters reactive (on spell or melee damage) heals.

    Buffs - I don't know if it's desirable at all, but maybe something similar to the SK AC Theft line? Also an optional mana return proc similar to the SK Mental line? And maybe some counterpart to the Tylix's Skin line?

    Again, I'm by no means a Pally expert, so be sure you have at least one grain of salt available.
  6. Sobmre Augur

    The Path of Marr- Group aura: Bonus to group/ae healing xx%

    Lay of hands upgrade- The Light of the Enlightened: if a paladin dies with this buff on an AE heal+rune goes off

    Marr's Witness- :Spell ae argo with mana tap
  7. Warpeace Augur

    Combine the Yaulp AA and Preservation spell line. Greatly extend the duration
    of the resulting new spell or aa
    from just over 5 minutes to 20 minutes and remove the heal recourse counters.

    This would also alleviate our agro mod being on such a short duration spell that can end even faster because of the counters being used.
  8. Kleitus_Xegony Augur

    Some of the changes /additions not already mentioned that I'd like to see are:

    1.) Group heal cast times reduced because they are simply too long to cast - especially tough to use while tanking.

    2.) Improved behavior for remote / target ring spells (not just Paladins). For splash heals there's a lot of times when you have to search for the right spot to cast the splash heals because the zone geometry is uneven. It's super annoying when you have to waste time just to find the correct spot to place the target ring to get it to go off.

    3.) A line of DD nukes (possibly a short-range PBAE) added to our spell set that isn't tied to a stun, undead only, or have a hate override.

    4.) Our buffs (other than Brells line) looked at or redone somehow. Even our RK III versions are overwritten by a cleric mercenary's RK II versions. There's no reason to use the buffs in a raid because of clerics, which is fine. There's no reason to use the buffs in the group game when you can just pop a healer merc for a couple seconds while it buffs the group with the clerical versions that overwrite ours. Our buffs are just a waste of time and energy (yours - we don't even use them). Along those lines, it would be nice if the Brells line also added AC in the buff.


    5.) Our heal over time spells to actually be redone or removed for something better / different. Very few Paladins that I know of actually like or even use them. Similar issue to our buffs.
    Thancra likes this.
  9. Redemption Lorekeeper

    ashbound keeper is better than assurance. block the cleric buff and cast your own.
    Maedhros likes this.
  10. Sheex Goodnight, Springton. There will be no encores.

    I’d still like to see Pal (and War) given a small aggro, fast cast, fast recast pb or targeted ae hate/utility spell, like the SK deflection line. Not something to generate a lot of hate or healing or anything, but a readily available button for tagging multiples to bridge the gap (especially handy when the long reuse abilities are down) would be a good QoL improvement.

    Fixing Pal single target hate would seem to be a big thing too....the days when Pal were single target kings and SKs ae kings felt a lot more balanced to me.
    Thancra and Allayna like this.
  11. Allayna Augur

    I agree with Sheex, even if keeping in the paladin thoughts, it was STUN PBAE and did no damage.
  12. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    The Paladin self Ward of Tunare line (Preservation) occupies Slot 4 Defensive Proc.
    The SK self Defensive proc Skin line occupies Slot 1.

    The Druid targetable Reptile line occupies Slot 4.
    The Shaman targetable Lingering Sloth line occupies Slot 3.
    The Cleric targetable Shining Rampart line occupies Slot 7.

    It’s lame that SKs can benefit from all 3 Priest Defensive proc buffs but Paladins can’t benefit from Druid’s.
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  13. p2aa Augur

    You certainly don't need more mitigation. You are able to MT a raid boss from start to the end yet. Warriors are just slightly better at it, but the gap is very close. Any nice mitigation boost will just make you mitigate as good or better than warriors, which should not happen.


    Your SCRM improvement should not happen to your 2 damage cap 35 % and 20 % mitigation discs imo. Apply it to your DPS offensive discs I have np with, but increasing your mitigation power will lead to the same problem I list above

    Why you say this ? We are a pure melee class. It's like complaining that all melee class have no cast time on their abilities. Totally dumb.
  14. p2aa Augur

    The hate mod attached to the Valiant Defense heal is single target hate because the heal is not a AE one ? Why you speak of AE hate on it ? It heals the target's target, so for me it's a single target effect ?
  15. p2aa Augur

    Fixing ? Paladin single target aggro is good atm. I would be ok that, to make it fair with SK having their highest hate tool instant cast (Terror), that paladins got theirs too instant cast (Crush, one proposition of Maedhros). Instant cast stuns would be out of question as would be overpowered. If crush were instant, paladin single target aggro would be very good and I hope it would put to rest the single target aggro complains of paladins.
  16. Zebrn Journeyman

    Paladins need some type of spell AE hate beyond the 2 AA they have now with a quicker refresh. It doesn't have to be a lot of hate, just enough that if something walks by, I can add it to my aggro list without switching targets and back again without blowing my 2 AA.
  17. Allayna Augur


    The mana cost should also be reduced on the crush line to be more in line with terrors. Terrors are 100m, crush is 1500m.
  18. Seldom Augur

    P2aa, this a thread for Paladin future needs. If you want to call folks ideas dumb and bring Warrior related issues up, do that in one of the other endless threads. Regarding the hate mod on Valiant Defense, that is indeed single target and works as intended. The hate mod on the healing component of it, Valiant Healing, has not been functioning as intended. This has short changed us on single and AE hate
  19. p2aa Augur

    When some of these ideas threaten class balance, it needs to be said. Boosting your flat mitigation abilities would threaten it.

    Then if your hate mod works, it should produce single target hate ?
    A 6 sec recast time ability that produce 7 k single target hate of the healing stuff ok,
    A 6 sec recast time ability that produce 7 k AE hate, no, would be overpowered.
  20. Allayna Augur


    [55736/13745] Insidious Denial Rk. III
    Classes: SHD/108
    Skill: Evocation
    Mana: 1533
    Target: Caster PB
    AE Range: 30'
    Resist: Magic -50
    Reflectable: Yes
    Trigger Spell DS: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 0.5s, Recast: 6s, Timer: 17, Rest: 1.5s
    Hate Mod: +2809
    1: Increase Hate by 4283
    2: Decrease Current HP by 5508
    3: Return 85% of Damage as HP, Max Per Hit: 18727