[PAL] BP suggestions

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Sirene_Fippy, Jan 14, 2017.

  1. josh Elder

    I goofed a bit on the numbers by forgetting some parenthesis. the warrior should be 24964 max hit. the pally one should be 36920 and 31382 with 15% 197. still rough numbers as well since i don't know the exact rounding and i may be applying the 451 disc incorrectly but i think that's the way it works. I don't have one or I would know for sure better. regardless, if i am wrong, it would mitigate more not less.
  2. p2aa Augur

    34% for knights, 35 % for warriors, 24/24, OK that makes 97 %.

    AC softcap ? It's so low that you everyone has reached it without problem. That doesn't enter in consideration for players at lvl 105

    Your example is of course biased because :
    1) What I underlined in your post, good warriors don't use all their abilities at the same time, so no the hit we receive is not what you obtain
    2) Brace for Impact 16 % is not procing 100 %, and is not sustainable anymore. So we have more times than you think that we rely on Shining Bastion 10 % one.
    3) Where is the paladin 15 % Vie that you can keep on yourself 24/24 ? It procs 100%, cap is low but you can recast it. It's missing in your numbers.

    1) is being the main reason why your example doesn't work

    Also, how much survival / mitigation worth the fact that you can refill your HP bar with so much ease ? The self healing you have. I'm convinced that warriors have a bigger HP bar than knights, because we cannot refill our HP bar like you can do.

    And then, it isn't right that warriors survive better than you in "burst" tanking ? That's amazing how you make it like it's not "right" warriors still can do better than knights in mitigation in some area.
    These abilities that you want copy / paste to you, allow us to still keep an edge in one last area, tanking raid bosses or other hard hitting raid mob / minis. So if you get them, it will end with no edge anymore for warriors, and knights being able to mitigate as good as warriors, or better because of the massive self healing advantage they have. No thanks.
    I'm amazed btw that some knights, after the massive mitigation buff they receive, still try to get more and more.
    I have seen some reasonable demand in this thread for your clicky, but a warlord bravery or dichotomic shielding or warlord tenacity clicky is not reasonable for a tank class balance perspective.
  3. Seldom Augur

    Warriors have plenty of advantages over Paladins without even going into the realm of spa 451, gigantic hp boosts, ac caps etc. 1.).Extremely higher aggro. 2.) Extremely higher sustained DPS. 3.) Extremely higher ability to whine in other classes threads with lies even when asked politely to stop. This is a thread for Paladin bp suggestions. You have Warriors on your BP thread asking for MORE mitigation abilities (yeah, talk about balanced). Go post over there
  4. p2aa Augur


    Paladins have plenty advantages over Warriors
    1) Extremely higher self healing
    2) Extremely higher soloing
    3) Seldom has an extremely high ability to fall into personal attack, when the truth is being said.

    I'm not looking at paladins abilities and asking to copy / paste them to warriors. I'm ok that they solo better than me or that they have better self healing than me. Contrary to you, who has always been obsessed with what warriors have and being greedy or jealous pick the one who suits you more.

    Stick with reasonable BP suggestion, and I would not need to come here.
  5. Seldom Augur

    I'm ok with Warriors having extremely higher sustained DPS than paladins and aggro so good that mains in your class say please no more aggro abilities. I'm not ok with two of three tanks having burst Spa 451 mitigation and ability to greatly boost HP when one tank class is unable to do so in challenging situations. Your point on extremely higher self healing is irrelevant, Shadowknight self healing beats Paladin in many situations and that doesn't prevent them from having a Spa 451. Same for soloing capabilities. Paladins definitely aren't killing Warriors in the group game with nature of your aggro and DPS. As I explained to you with shield stance years ago, one or two tank classes can't have extreme mitigation advantages over another at this point in EQ. As that was corrected when you were claiming that too was "balanced", this will be corrected. All tanks have their own advantages currently without mitigation even in picture and quite frankly all three need to be brought down in some way for the good of game. Burst mitigation spa 451 type abilities is not one of those ways. I have attacked you in no way, you've lied multiple times on this thread and displayed your poor understanding of game. I've asked you multiple times to please take your supposed class balance agenda somewhere else. This is a thread for Paladin bp suggestions. Plenty of balance where art thou threads out there for you
  6. p2aa Augur

    Paladin self healing is better than SK self healing, in all situations. The harder a mob will hit, the most shining your self healing will be compared to SK. While a SK relies on more on some passive self healing, you have the best active self healing of the 3 tank classes.
    It's always the same with you, you downplay what the paladin class can do in some areas.

    Solo and Group is not the same, nice mistake.

    This "extreme" mitigation advantage doesn't exist.
    This is not you nor me who decides if this will be corrected, but devs need to have another picture of the tanking situation that you portray in these boards before taking a decision. Once again, if you don't have any 451 SPA ability there might be a good reason that they didn't give some to you, a reason that we don't know.


    You don't attack me, but you follow just after by a personal attack. Feel free to link where I have lied in my answers. I have no doubt that my understanding of the game is better than you, especially in what warriors can do in tanking situations.
  7. Seldom Augur

    If a Shadowknight can survive in a situation with only their heals and a Paladin cannot, the Shadowknight self healing capabilities is better than the Paladins in that scenario. This exists in "many" scenarios in EQ. "Many" does not signify "all". You claiming Paladin self healing is better than Shadowknight self healing in "all" situations is another example of where you blatantly lie or exhibit an extremely poor understanding of EQing/current in game balance. An extreme mitigation/HP advantage does exist for a Warrior/Shadowknight over a Paladin whenever they decide to stack up all their current tanking abilities. Paladins lacking a spa 451 threshold rune is a large reason for this. Again, stating and pointing out your poor understanding of the game and Warrior/tank knowledge is not attacking you. All three tanks have enough of their own advantages without two of the three needing an additional SpA 451 mitigation edge. All tank classes are virtually OP status and the fact that your in Paladin bp thread championing for supposed in game balance says more than enough about you. No, I'm not going to link you all the times you lied/trolled and displayed your lack of ability to comprehend basic math in this thread. You have not given one suggestion for Paladin bp in this thread
  8. p2aa Augur

    OK, i'm going to be constructive, and ignore the personal attacks because it leads to nothing and it's detrimental to this thread. Devs will have the final word anyway, so we can shout at each other as much as we want, the final decision will not come from us.

    I'm not a paladin, so i'm not better suited than paladins players to suggest something that would be useful, without being OP. But if I had to say something, I think that there is one area where you are way weaker than the 2 other tank classes, it's AE aggro. Single target aggro you are ok, providing you use the correct aggro spells, but AE aggro you are really weak compared to the other 2 tank classes. So a BP click improving AE aggro would be a nice improvement for the class I think.
  9. Warpeace Augur

    Next p2aa and the rest of the fake news @ 6.
  10. Sheex Augur

    We may have finally found a worthy forum-warrior-successor to He-that-shall-not-dual-wield? Certainly checks off a lot of boxes when compared to v1.0.
    Chaosflux and sojero like this.
  11. josh Elder


    You have an over the softcap ac return of 35%. We have one of 33%. If you don't believe me, log on and ask your fellow, similarly geared knights what their mitigation ac is compared to yours after the most recent patch. Yours is higher.

    Secondly, as i already tried to explain, our 15% vie is spa 162, which means it does not stack with our 35% 162 disc that i used in my calculation. You are definitely underselling brace for impact. but shining rampart is not difficult to get and you also have pain doesn't hurt. pain doesn't hurt is a lot better than people think. The damage we are looking at is damage after DP, FS. on that same 84k hitter i mentioned earlier, with final stand running, the 4708 damage limit from pain doesn't hurt takes over when the mob rolls a 19 or lower. the only time rampart actually absorbs more damage is when the boss rolls a 20.

    Granted, higher hitters, not running final stand, a higher percentage 162 buff all contribute to making pain doesn't hurt less viable but even the worst case scenario, pain doesn't hurt still takes over on rolls of 10 or lower and before you say it, that actually does matter. I know everybody thinks that the 20 rolls are all that matters, but if a boss rolls 3 20's and a single 1 in a combat round. pain doesn't hurt will still absorb 4708 damage from that 1. and that can easily make the difference. OH, and it also absorbs spell damage. You still have rampart absorbing the damage from the 20 rolls as well. paladins don't even have a 162 buff that works that way, sk's and warriors both do. We only benefit from 1 of our half dozen spa 162 buffs at a time, making them situationally useful at best.

    So, you have pain doesn't hurt, and brace for impact on 162, AND a paladin can give you PP AND a cleric can give you shining rampart. the 162 SPA is just extremely saturated. We can all always expect to have some version of it on us which is why the fact that 2 of the 3 paladin discs use it is not that great.
    shiftie likes this.
  12. shiftie Augur

  13. Ngreth Thergn Developer

    The click needs to be a set amount, so 197 (only percentage based) is a non-starter. 451 isn't and is an interesting idea.
    What if it was 451 and 452... whichever is "consumed" first ends the spell. So a big spell hit coems in, poof it's gone. Or you are taking melee hits... so poof gets consumed there?

    Another idea based on the CotF click (39330 - Shield of the Righteous). What is instead of a heal, the defensive proced a version of 451? Of make another one like the CotF click with larger heals, less counters.
    shiftie likes this.
  14. Seldom Augur

    Ngreth, I'm definitely in favor of the spa 451 and 452 idea. If possible, please consider adding spa 69 as well. If unable to add those three, preferable just do spa 451 and 69. Thanks for checking out our thread and ideas
    shiftie likes this.
  15. Ngreth Thergn Developer

    I Can look into some sort of defensive based thing for the click, be it a proc rune, def proc rune, a single melee guard rune... Just it will be a SET amount of effect. I will also not be creating new SPA's so the remote heal for damage thing is a no win.
    I *could* do a remote heal proc with limited counters if you like the idea of healing while you attack. It does sound paladin-ish. It would not be keyed to the damage you are doing, it would just be a target of target heal for X amount with Y counters for a total of Z healing that procs from... something. Either swings or maybe bash/kick.
  16. shiftie Augur

    On the second portion of this. Instead of a heal could it be replaced with z mana return?

    20 proc x 1000 mana equaling 20k mana which is 12% of a top paladins mana pool
  17. Ngreth Thergn Developer

    I will say this is unlikely. If you don't already have a mana click in recent expansions, we are unlikely to add one.
  18. josh Elder

    A 451 disc would be good. It's hard to give numbers since we aren't sure what you are willing to give us but 451 is best used to absorb damage from high hits. since it is going to have a total damage cap we would only want it to absorb damage from high hits. so, the minimum hit it would absorb would be somewhere around 20k.

    The proc off of bash idea is interesting, depends on what numbers you have in mind I guess.

    Whatever form the mitigation buff would take, i think in order to actually replace our cotf bp it would need to absorb more than 200k damage total.

    A bigger heal with fewer charges wouldn't be better. That basically just gives us a higher chance of an overheal from the proc. assuming the same amount of total healing.
  19. Maedhros Augur

    Definitely need to ditch the 10k dmg x 20 sword proc. Thats like one good swing with pureforge.
    Its going to have to be better than:
    Sanguine Energeiac Plate Breastplate
    MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO TRADE INFUSIBLE
    Slot: CHEST
    Charges: Unlimited
    Purity: 75
    AC: 172
    STR: +36+4 DEX: +36+4 STA: +36+5 CHA: +36 WIS: +36+5 INT: +36+5 AGI: +36+2 HP: +575 MANA: +575
    SV FIRE: +37 SV DISEASE: +37 SV COLD: +37 SV MAGIC: +37 SV POISON: +37
    Attack: +60 HP Regen +6 Mana Regeneration: +3
    Required level of 75.
    Effect: Ward of Solteris (Any Slot/Can Equip, Casting Time: 1.0) at Level 75
    Recast Delay: 800 seconds, Recast Type: 16
    Focus: Dawn's Sunlight
    WT: 12.4 Size: LARGE
    Class: PAL
    Race: HUM ERU HIE HEF DWF HFL GNM FRG DRK
    Slot 1, Type 8 (General: Raid)
    Slot 2, Type 14 (Energeiac: Raid)
    Slot 3, Type 21 (Special Ornamentation)

    Ward of Solteris
    Description
    4: Add Defensive Proc: Stun Ward Effect rate mod 1200
    Details Raw Spell Data, Lucy Spell View
    Mana: 450 Casting Time: 3
    Recast Time: 1.5 Fizzle Time: 1.5
    Range: 0 Location: Any
    Time of Day: Any Max Hits: 240
    Interruptable: Yes Short Buff Box: No
    Target Type: Self Spell Type: Beneficial
    Category: Contact Innates Source: Live 02/14
    Messages
    Cast on you: You feel the ward of Mysaphar surround you.
    Cast on other: Soandso is surrounded by the ward of Mysaphar.
    Effect Fades: The ward of Mysaphar fades away.
    Game Description
    Engulfs your body in protection of Solteris, which will sometimes stun attackers when you are struck in melee combat.

    The total amount of secondary healing from the Healing Light AA procs off the stuns is pretty massive.
    Its going to take something pretty good to ditch this 9 year old BP.

    Definitely prefer something that heals rather than mitigation, we have a ton of mitigation.
    To be honest, an updated version of Ward of Solteris that can stun level 107 and below mobs would be lovely(112 or below if there is a level cap raise!). It would be especially nice if there was a little bit of decent hate added on the stun procs, say 3k hate per stun or something.

    Outside of this, an offensive proc could be fine, but the flat 10k dmg x 20 is simply not enough to be useful.

    I think it goes without saying that the Deflection mod is irreplaceable.
  20. Chaosflux Augur

    Healing Light was purposely changed last year so it no longer fires off stun procs from clickies Maedhros

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