[PAL] BP suggestions

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Sirene_Fippy, Jan 14, 2017.

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  1. Sirene_Fippy Augur

    What kind of BP focus and clicky do you guys want to see in the next expansion?
    Same one? Old one? New idea? Please give your feedback, it will be passed on to the devs.
    - Also, can you make a good argument for your focus becoming an AA, and coming up with a new focus if that happened?

    Some guidelines -
    - Top 3 spell choices for focusing are suggested.
    - Focuses that impact usability of any spells/abilities are good (ex: heal/dmg focus %, spell haste, reduced timer, extended duration)
    - Wanting same as existing BP is fine

    For reference, the current focus:
    [4620] PAL Deflection Discipline Duration 2
    Duration: 3.3h (1950 ticks), Extendable: Yes, Dispelable: Yes
    1: Increase Duration by 12s
    2: Limit Spell: Deflection Discipline
    Increases the duration of Deflection Discipline by 2 ticks.

    Current clicky:
    [47151] Sword of Justice
    1: Summon Pet: S22PalBPSword3 x 1 for 180s
    Summons a sword of justice. This sword will strike up to four nearby hated enemies for 10000 damage every five seconds, up to a maximum of 20 strikes.
  2. Shmid New Member

    Keep the focus because it's the best thing possible.

    As for the click, ditch this junk we've been getting and move back to useful clicks. I honestly haven't bothered to use these dps sword clicks more than just for giggles. Weeee my swords did 200k total damage!

    What I would love to see on future clicks would be either another updated to current levels defensive proc'ing stun ward, or make my wish come true with a stunning strike defensive ward. Those would be used all the time.

    Shmid
  3. Qbert Gallifreyan

    In general, the focus is great/no need to switch to anything else. However, penalizing the group version by having a 50% effectiveness as compared to the raid version needs to be reconsidered (and listing only the raid version above is a bit misleading).

    As far as the click goes, the single biggest thing I would like to see is to either remove the shared timer with most other class breastplates (unlikely), or at least have an alternating shared timer in this era of the clicks being very small in their impact (as compared to older clicks like OoW, TSS, TBS, etc.).

    Hearkening back to older clicks for an effect people would actually like to use would be nice, or something that people actually want to use almost every time the timer refreshes (even if it is something as simple as a mini version of one of our aa abilities, like a lesser version Blessing of the Faithful, Marr's Gift or Hand of Piety, etc.). The pet stuff is meh; I use it, rarely . . . when I have 4+ mobs incoming, but not for the dps . . . to soak up one round of combat from a few mobs as I back up.
  4. josh Augur

    The focus is the best thing possible, which i guess is an argument for giving it to us as an aa. It's absolutely required. If you put something else on a new bp, unless its the most amazing thing ever, I'm not going to use that bp. Or at the very least im going to have to switch to the old one anytime i wanna use deflection.

    As for the clicky effect, we don't need anything that stuns or boosts our healing power. we have enough of that. what we need is mitigation. We don't have an spa 451 or 197 mitigation disc. In my opinion, that is by far the best thing we could get. if we could get something similar to the anguish bp that warriors get that would be ideal. Failing that, something that temporarily increases our max hp would be great too. If I'm asking for too much, just go back to the cotf clicky, its way better than the sword pet we got now.

    Personally, I'm against giving us any direct heals, I have enough of that. more of it isn't going to add anything because I already have enough heals to always be clicking one, I don't need another.
  5. p2aa Augur

    What you need is mitigation ? You don't think that you are yet too close of warrior mitigation, and want more ? As you say it, it's indeed asking too much to get our anguish BP effect or a knight own Warlord Tenacity clicky. I know that you make just suggestions, but in term of class balance compared to warriors this would not work imo.
  6. Seldom Augur

    Josh hit the nail on the head with his post. IMO, we "need" a bp click with a flesh mitigation/rune style buff and large temporary HP boost. Can put a large temp aggro boost on it too for good measure. Definitely not asking for too much with such requests with way things are in game currently. Thanks for making post Sirene and passing our ideas along. P2aa type Warriors, please don't post ridiculous things in our thread and stay in your own :).
  7. Razorfall Augur

    a 35% version of devout penitence would be nice.
    I would also like a short duration buff that allows you to remote heal a percentage of the damage you do.
    .or an AE stun proc with group heal component.

    just about anything is better than the sword

    the focus can stay the same though.if anything maybe have a reduced reuse timer on armor of ardency/devout penitence? depends on how much it's reduced by.
  8. Brohg Augur

    Devout Penitence the actual paladin defensive discipline? You think the activated effect of your BP should be a roughly double strength version of your disc?
  9. Seldom Augur

    Aiming to boost our vie style disc isn't good idea IMO. We've gotten the short end of the stick the past couple of expansions when it comes to flesh rune style abilities- Spa 451. This should be one of our number one priorities in correcting and having that as a clicky would make it instantly worth while in many situations; for group and raid Paladins.
  10. Razorfall Augur

    It's not unheard of. Some warrior BPs have this effect.

    like dichotomic shielding? I'd be ok with that
  11. p2aa Augur

    With ways things are in game currently ? Can you explain us why paladins need more mitigation in game right now ? Regarding the 451 SPA ability, devs gave SK Reaver's Bargain, and nothing to pallies. It seems obvious to me that they didn't want to give you a SPA 451 ability. Why ? I don't know, but they must have their reasons.
    Also, do you really think that devs will give paladins a powerful mitigation BP clicky, while the two other tanks have some DPS junk stuff ?

    Then stop asking ridiculous overpowered BP clicky, a dichotomic shielding + warlord tenacity + phantom aggressor clicky ? And you say you don't ask for too much rofl. You have shown in the tanks forums that you have always been greedy and jealous of warriors and wanting to have a copy / paste of their tools to you.
    I don't intervene in all threads, pending things asked are reasonable regarding tank class balance. And what you ask is not reasonable.
  12. p2aa Augur

    Can you link us such BP, that double our defensive disc time ?
  13. Seldom Augur

    When Shadowknights received Reavers Bargain, all tanks were in a radically different place, not sure why you'd bring that up as example. Knights didn't even have stances yet. Yes, I do believe the developers have the probability of giving Paladins a useful mitigation clicky on our breastplate click with way things are currently in game. Warriors have a DRAMATICALLY more powerful dichotomic and aggro producing harmonius than ours. Shadowknights have a more powerful breastplate click than ours (it does same damage and heals), they also have a unique aa tank line we don't have which gives 50,000 purple hp and large flesh rune. That's in addition to far stronger alliance and aggro producing harmonius. There is zero logical reason for me to believe we can't have a unique tanking ability on our breastplate click. If it gives HP and aggro great, that too wouldn't be anywhere near overpowering in grand scheme of things in game currently. This is not a thread for class balance warfare between Warriors and Paladins. This is a thread for Paladins to give suggestions for what we'd like to see on our breastplate click
  14. Razorfall Augur

    I didn't say anything about doubling defensive disc time. I just mentioned that there was a BP that had a 35% mitigation buff, which is what our best vie disc does. But if you're interested in what I was referring to then it can be found here http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=118378

    The effect is called Warrior's Instinct
  15. josh Augur


    We don't want that though. that is spa 162. We have 162 coming out of our buttholes. The last thing we need is another one. 451 or 197 is what we need. warriors have two different versions of each of those in addition to a plethora of 162 and 168, so i think its absurdly ridiculous that any warrior is complaining about paladins or knights in general getting one. 10 minute reuse, 30 second duration 15% 197 clicky is not a huge ask, I'm sorry but it isn't.

    Another idea i had was an SPA 452 spell rune clicky. It would probably have to be too powerful to justify putting it on a bp but i think with the massive amount of spell damage in this recent expansion, and if that damage continues into future expansions, it would be really nice to have some spell absorption options that work on unresistable/non-reflectable spells. We've been suffering a lot of damage spikes from spell damage this expansion. something along the lines of this

    Absorb 40% of Spell Damage on Hits over 6000, Total: 608000
  16. p2aa Augur


    With a max damage per hit reduced of 1800. This is the biggest difference with your vie disc, which has no max hit reduced dmg and a way bigger dmg cap (but that's k because this is one of your main defensive disc).
    When this BP was current for warriors, the effect was just not used, because you were taking more damage using it than not. Even now, when you can use many Vies abilities at the same time and the game automatically chooses the one that makes you take less dmg, the effect of this BP would not be used. Because of the max damage per hit restriction. Even right now, wurmslayer new clicky invalidates it nearly at 100 % (100 % reduction with a max hit reduced of 1 750, so just 50 less dmg than Warrior Instinct).
  17. p2aa Augur

    When knights are at 99% of warrior mitigation 24/24, it's not ridiculous to say that you have enough mitigation without you needing to get our warlord's bravery BP effect or dichotomic shielding.
  18. Sheex Goodnight, Springton. There will be no encores.

    What SPA did the Guktan ghost use? From an outsider's perspective, that thing seemed legit!
  19. josh Augur


    I really don't want to get into this in this thread but i don't know what delusional world you are living in where our mitigation is 99% of yours. First of all, as shown by our actual ac displayed on the test server right now. you still have a very significant ac soft cap margin over us.

    Let's just create a hypothetical mob with a 4k DB and a 4k DI. It will have a maximum damage of 84k.

    There are 4 primary melee mitigation SPA's that I am aware of. 162, 168, 197 and 451
    the 4 primary versions of each of these that warriors have is
    162 brace for impact at 16% and the innate 5% from weapon proficiency
    168 final stand at 45%
    192 guardian's bravery and warlord's bravery at 15%
    451 dichotomic at 40%
    Only one from each of these stack.

    I'm not gonna explain this formula but this is how all of that damage would be applied roughly.
    4000 + (4000 * 20 * .55) * .84 * .85 - (((4000 + (4000 * 20 * .55) * .84 * .85) - 11000) * .4)

    for a total max hit of 25650, mitigating almost 70% of melee damage. I'm not suggesting that you do use all these discs at once but the point is you can.

    Paladins on the other hand, only have access to two of these spa's 162 and 168. our best combination looks like this

    4000 + (4000 * 20 * .66) * .65

    for a max hit of 38320, or about 55%. Even when you add a 15% 197 disc to ours it only cuts it down to 33172. still less than you. This doesn't even take into account that one of those discs also increases your hp by an absurd amount and you have warlords tenacity. HP is it's own form of mitigation. AND you have more hp innately, also, more ac innately.

    I will grant you that dichotomic doesn't last long and when you compare our sustained tanking ability, knights are relatively close in mitigation to warriors but in burst tanking warriors are way ahead because you just have an absurd amount of abilities that stack with your longer discs.

    Also, we have the ability to heal ourselves. so i wouldn't suggest that we should have the same mitigation as you, but the point I'm making is that we have quite a bit less than you. a 15% 197 clicky is not that big of a deal.
  20. shiftie Augur

    It was the same as our discs/impose it was worthless for defense
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