Overseer Changes and Refunds

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by That0neguy, Mar 22, 2020.

  1. That0neguy Augur

    A bunch of us who spent money on DBC solely to buy Agent packs in the store for the new Overseer finally received a response in regards to refunds. DBG is refusing to refund any purchases (or even the DBC itself) as per their terms of service and recommended we bring our concerns to the forums . I completely understand this in normal situations.

    However this situation feels much different. You launched a new feature that had a pay to win aspect in it. People spent money thinking they would be able to enjoy this new system and benefit from it. After they had spent money on this system, DBG deemed those rewards were too powerful and not tuned correctly. In making their changes they removed a lot of peoples desire to spend money on a system that really did not provide much of a reward. Many of us would never have spent money on what the system is now if it had been originally launched this way.

    Changing rewards for a system that people invested money into feels very sketchy, dishonest, and unethical. I will use my example from another thread. Imagine if DBG sold a 60min 100% exp potion for 2000 DBC. After people had bought 10 of them and used a few, DBC decided that it was too good and changed it to only be a 25% potion. You would now be left with a bunch of potions that have little use and you would never have spent money on in the first place.

    I implore the DBG to actually do something about this. Either make the system useful or refund peoples purchases. Because at this rate you have a customer who spends hundreds of dollars a year on your products that will probably never spend another cent with the company based on its behavior here.
  2. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    I agree that they should be refunding everyone based on the drastic change in Overseer. I haven't really done anything with it myself never mind buying anything from the store but they RADICALLY changed overseer and it would be pretty scummy not to refund the marketplace cash folks spent on it.

    I totally get the need to nerf the initial release but many folks bought items based on that that initial release gave them.

    This seems like a clear case of bait and switch. And just to be clear again I spent nothing at all on this so it doesn't affect me personally. But it does seem almost criminal.
  3. cadres Augur

    I spent in-game currency that I would certainly not have spent if the rewards were are they are now. There's nothing I want (beyond collectibles for some lowbie alts who've never bothered with them) .
    So: 100% agreed with the OP - there should be refunds (and I understood that there would be?)
  4. Praxeomatic New Member

    Given that tickets are just getting form responses, and we're being encouraged to take this issue to the forums- this belongs here.

    With the launch of the Overseer feature in Everquest, I spent about $120 on DBC to buy agents with the idea in mind they'd be a long term investment as I participated in this new part of Everquest. Subsequently, I also spent a fair bit of DBC doing 'rush' missions for Overseer.

    With regard to the purchase of agents - given the changes made to the system - I must say I absolutely feel cheated. The product I purchased is not the product that was delivered to me, and they do not even resemble each other. For the modality in which I participated in the system - when comparing the system during the time in which I bought in - to the way it is now - the two are different by a factor of more than 157x. To put this in tangible terms, that's the difference between purchasing a new computer to play everquest with, or buying an entire new home with cash up front. These two things are not even in the same ballpark- so it should not surprise anyone that people are feeling cheated.

    With regard to the DBC I spent in order to rush missions - I must say I do not feel cheated. Given the information I have now, I likely still would have made at least some of those same decisions (although I never would have engaged with the system in the first place - but let's assume for some reason I did). I would be fine with leaving those purchases as is - especially given that there is an element of chance (although this element was misrepresented by the client as it displayed overly generous success rates that it did not then give to players).

    I feel I should be refunded the DBC spent on agent packs - as the product I purchased is not the product as it is currently described in game. It is, in fact, not even close to the same thing. Given that the agent packs in particular are a sort of 'long view' type of purchase, it is in my view inappropriate to expect your customers to put up with the bait-and-switch maneuver that took place earlier this month.

    If you look at my account, transactions
    2310149821, and
    in which I spent a total of 5670 DBC on "agent packs" are those which I feel it would be responsible of you to refund to me in DCB.

    I don't mind not getting a cash refund, I'll use the DBC for something else that I feel represents a reasonable and fair exchange of value between myself and y'all. I am also glad to let you keep the DBC I spent engaging in 'rush' missions. I feel this is a reasonable middle ground, and would expect, if you refuse, to hear an explanation as to why you might feel differently so that we can engage in that discussion.

    If you guys let the issue lag and don't take the responsible action in a reasonable amount of time, I have to say I would feel cheated to a degree that I find unacceptable. I don't like feeling cheated, and would participate with other players in a collaboration to pursue other means to settle this disagreement.
  5. Ohnoh New Member

    I, too, purchased overseer packs from the DBG store. I did do specifically because I saw them as a way to catch my character on Selo up before Underfoot launches in a week. What was advertised and what the overseer system has become is a classic bait and switch. It serves no benefit to me nor my character’s progression on Selo in its current form and I asked for a refund of the DBG coins I spent on the original system. DBG has refused this and I’m left scratching my head as to why they are choosing this hill to die upon. You simply cannot launch a new feature for actual cash, have players spend money on said feature, turn around and change it radically to the point of making it worthless and not expect your player base to seek refunds. Please, do the right thing here and refund those of us who feel we’ve been wronged. Your lack of testing, planning and foresight should not be on our shoulders to absorb.
    Kaenneth and SmellyFinger like this.
  6. Aaroneous New Member

    I also purchased packs specifically to help me run these missions. The rewards were worth it then and have been extremely disappointed with them now. I would love to at least get the DBC back even if not the actual money, but buying all those merc packs to help do missions for good rewards was worth it and then now it's just brutal :(
    Kaenneth and SmellyFinger like this.
  7. Zamiam Augur

    I did not purchase any DPG agents for the overseer I did spend a few DPC to finish a few missions and im not worried about less than 50 DPcash that I had left over from my free 500 DPC ,i spent to experiment with this .. Howerver I agree with the OP that if i had spend R/L cash for agent packs on the overseer game of what it was before the nerf then I would feel highly cheated and would want a refund as well . I would def classify this as a bait and switch maneuver .
    I hope DPG can see that and will make it right for those players that spent their hard earned R/L cash for a system that is no longer what they thought it was gonna be .
    and I hope the dev's will respond to this post ..
    if you guys want a dev to respond to this post , if they will .. dont mention any 3rd party involvement it has already been stated, once that is mentioned they can and will not respond ..
  8. Benito Sword of Truth Bombs

    Before grabbing the pitch forks, everyone needs to realize Dreamweaver does not usually respond to the forums until the next business day (Monday) and there may be a disconnect between the dev team (who mentioned refunds and free packs) and Customer Service.

    Your best option is to identify your situation to Dreamweaver through DMs (in addition to this thread). You shouldn't share your transaction numbers in public.

    Additionally, since California is in "lockdown", solutions may not come immediately.
    Coagagin likes this.
  9. HoodenShuklak Augur

    Frankly I did not spend a lot, but that's because i was (mistakenly perhaps) prioritizing real life. So in one sense i missed the boat on an obviously overpowered mechanic for some players.

    However, I did spend store cash shortly before the nerf was announced. Without exaggeration or hyperbole I would have never made that investment if I knew the changes that were coming. The people that invested more probably do feel bad. Fortunately if they were on selo they probably bought every piece of gear from omm they needed. So in that sense it's a tradeoff. But still... c'mon...
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  10. HoodenShuklak Augur

    The real fix imo isn't refunds but tweak the overseer so it's at least somewhat useful for 85s.
    SmellyFinger likes this.
  11. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    I don't see them changing Overseer to anything close to what it was when they released it. That does though beg the question as to why it was so stupendously badly tuned. I mean they tuning was massive from everything I have read. Currency being made no trade. Radically reducing the chance and amount of collection items you can get.

    I mean if the purpose was to trick a bunch of folks into spending all kinds of DPG cash then mission successful.

    The fact that the changes were so wide spread should be an automatic reimbursement to everyone who wants one.

    Just very hard to believe that such a massive retuning wasn't planned from the start. We aren't talking small tweaks to the prices of items you buy with the overseer currency they were massive and had badly do you have to screw up to require such needed changes.

    Usually people are accusing me of being a DPG white knight defending them. Just don't see a defense for this.

    Anyone who wants a refund should get it. I am just glad I never spent anything on Overseer.
    Quatr and Caell like this.
  12. Sokki Still Won't Buff You!!

    If they offer refunds are they going to remove all the extra agents you got? What if you've already converted them into Rare agents? If they just offer a refund and don't take back the agents you'll have even more people mad since everyone who bought them early essentially got free agents. I think that's the biggest problem they are facing with refunds atm.
    eepok and Yinla like this.
  13. Nennius Curmudgeon

    There you go again, bringing logic into the argument.
    eepok likes this.
  14. That0neguy Augur

    I'm pretty sure anyone who wants a refund is ok with then wiping all agents from the overseer. I know I posted they could wipe it clean. Even if they can't it is still the right thing to do.

    I also understand that it's unlikely for it to be changed back to what it was. Nor is that necessarily the right thing to do. However there has to be some middle ground between making the system have next to no value and allowing it to have enough value that people who invest into it dont feel cheated.

    That would be the best solution for all. However the team seems unwilling to do that as they keep doubling down on anything that could even remotely be seen as useful from this system.
    Kaenneth and Corwyhn Lionheart like this.
  15. Sokki Still Won't Buff You!!

    I'm sure those that got them would be fine with losing them, but I think that's where the complication is. It's probably not as easy as it sounds to accomplish.

    I agree, finding a middle ground between original rewards and current rewards would be the best solution. Some of the item prices on the merchant are pretty insane now. The collection change I think is alright since it rewards coin now as well. Some of the older TS items could use a boost in amount as well. We'll just have to wait and see if they implement another change to it.
  16. Lateryn Augur

    It's funny that the only ones super upset and demanding refunds are those that were trying to "Game" the system the hardest. Knowing they were doing something most likely not intended(aka farming 20-50k tetra a day), on multiple accounts and all funneling to one, then buying brews and gear for their characters.

    What these posters dont tell you is they funneled tetra to buy brews to then buy gear with raid stats from OMM on their characters. They are currently using all this gear. They bought the agents so they could cover and run more missions on every character. So they are using their reward currently, but seem to forget that and are demanding refunds because they cant do that anymore.

    Be careful what you ask for, you want entire thing refunded, ok sure. Lets take every agent and every piece of gear you bought with that currency away also.

    The only likely refund I see is for those who paid for completing quests instead of waiting, as their chance of success was wrong(people were paying and then failing 100% labeled missions).
    Coagagin and eepok like this.
  17. Ohnoh New Member

    I am fine with wiping out all of the overseer system and starting fresh. I included that in my original petition, as long as the price of the overseer packs were refunded.

    I paid for one thing. They switched it to something completely different I cannot use. This is bait and switch. It’s sneaky and underhanded. If they have the mechanisms in place to do refunds for paid completions, they have mechanisms in place to refund overseer purchases. They are just choosing to not do so, and quite frankly, it’s disrespectful to the player base.
  18. Herodotus Augur

    Well, I doubt my opinion will matter very much, but I haven't spent any RL cash in the Overseer thingie and I would not want to lose what have gained from it. Perhaps an option to beg out of any refund?
    eepok likes this.
  19. Claan Elder

    I feel flat out cheated out of the RL money I put into the Overseer feature. Classic bait and switch. The things that interested me the most are now totally gone. To me, it's the same as spending 90k on a new Dodge Demon and drive it happily for a few weeks only to have the manufacturer remotely trigger the engine to only produce a third the power. Yeah, it's less money but the same principle to me. Please stop beta testing stuff on live servers, and wait until it's the way you want it to be, before you roll it out on live and take my money.
    Kaenneth and SmellyFinger like this.
  20. Sobmre Augur

    Horrible way to treat the people that are loyal to the game. and they don't seem to care at all.
    Kaenneth and SmellyFinger like this.