Only post in a decade (warning: long)

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Lichner, Oct 26, 2014.

  1. Zunnoab Augur

    I really wish I'd have made the time to pay attention to beta, for all the good it would have done.

    Almost everything I've heard conflicts with the direction of the game I heard the devs talk about at SoE Live 2013 while rolling back progress the game has made over its long lifespan. Overuse of snare/root immune mobs and overuse of summoning were things that were addressed the last few expansions, only for it to sound like they return inexplicably here. I remember hearing the devs giving thoughtful answers to some hardcore fans, explaining to them that they want to provide content for everyone but that they do not represent the majority of the player base, that they would design for most players. The staggered content release pattern of the prior two expansions was a good middle ground.

    Tuning issues are never set in stone when an expansion launches, and I realize that, but when I hear guildies that tested in Beta say the new raids make the Zek Bros. in the hideously overtuned "anniversary" event look easy I just shake my head. When I see word of "one try" events, at least one of which kicks people from the zone if they miss a couple emotes, that can only be tried once per week I have to wonder how that, the single worst idea I have ever seen in my eleven years playing the game, made it through discussions and into the game.

    Then I hear of across the board experience nerfs. Rewarding progression in RoF gutted to nothingness, even for characters of RoF's level. Hideously reduced experience if not in the current expansion over level 100, etc. I am hoping that stuff was either rolled back or exaggerated.

    It's like everything I've heard at SoE Live 2013 and in the time window before and after it went out the window. I can only hope it's an exaggeration. I understand some, some even in my own guild, want harder content, but personally after playing so long it gets old when events come along that make it so just one or two people of certain classes logging can ruin the rest of the raid night. I'm not calling for cleric and warrior nerfs, but it's by the nature of the game they get prime importance, and the more extreme the tuning the more one of them logging can end the night. I have to say if what we have to look forward to is a bunch of Tower of Rot type tuning I don't look forward to it, other than in the context of playing with my guildies.

    I'm in no hurry to quit. While 90% of the reason I play is for my guild, I do enjoy the game even if my interest goes up and down.

    There's something very important that seems to be missed: "Is it fun?" For Tower of Rot for example, is a fight allegedly about resource management suddenly getting crazy at 25% 30+ minutes into a fight "fun?" That fight is not about resource management, period, it's about the last 25% and that's it with a time sink before it. Seriously what's with the anti-enchanter design lately too? 20s mezz for enchanters on that event, really? I could see 30s but seriously... I don't want to get into a rant about raid design or tuning, but that fight just screams what I'm talking about when I say "Is this fun?" seems to be out of the picture in this game's design sometimes now. Is it fun to go into a new raid with a bunch of punishing mechanics only to get one single shot for the week? What if some key player goes LD? What if a cleric or the main tank's kids need attention or something? Heck what about just learning the event? Just the whole thing makes me not even want to play it at all, even though I will since I am dedicated to my guild.

    At this point, my expectations can only be exceeded, and that is the positive I give looking into this. I backed off reading yesterday because I was getting too whiny, then I hear more and more from others in game with very little positive to say.

    That encapsulates the feedback I see about this expansion. Design to make things more difficult or more tedious and put more roadblocks up, all with the answer to the question "Is this design that makes the game more fun?" a resounding no.

    All of this while putting no preorder up, allegedly because the 5+ years of SoE's payment processing failing often on preorders warrants just not even bothering with them rather than fixing the system. The hilarous $90 "collector's" edition is just icing on the cake of the lunacy there.

    I want to see this expansion succeed, and I really hope I can give better feedback than what I've read come Tuesday. If half of what I saw people say is true though, this needs to be fixed quickly or it's like they are trying to kill off the game.
  2. Shang Augur

  3. Quatr Augur

    To be fair, it's not always feasible to tell the client(s) why things aren't working out. For example, some years ago my company hired a project manager to manage a client-facing project. After a few months the project started having problems. It turned out that the guy was crazy (as in clinically insane.) We had to get rid of him in a hurry before things went from bad to worse. Our top management then decided that there was no way we could explain the situation to the client without looking like fools, so we just said that he was no longer with the company. Which was technically true, but it didn't do much to help explain some of the messes that he had left behind.

    I am not saying that EQ is being managed by lunatics ;) but the point is that you never know what may be going on behind the scenes. There is only one thing that we, as consumers, can be sure about, and that is whether the online experience that we pay for is still fun.
  4. Zunnoab Augur

    I'll say when I started EQ back in 2003 LoY was actually a great expansion, as one that came with the game when I got it. That said, I'm having a very hard time imagining how this expansion could possibly offer less content than LoY.
    Leerah likes this.
  5. Vanda Journeyman

    Outstanding post Lichner. I know a few friends who will still play casually. I'm going to give them my krono and plat so they can continue to play.
    Lisandra likes this.
  6. Yimin Augur

    I am sorry too hear of yet another player leaving EQ but I can understand it , and I wish you well Lichner , I am waiting myself to see if my Mage pet can tank in TDS for my alt army , if it can not ill be playing Mage only and raiding with my guild ,since there wont be really anything else for me to do ....



    Yimin
    Lisandra likes this.
  7. Garanle Elder

    Well put, this isn't long as a post. This is how you construct a letter to show your feelings. It is well thought out and goes through a long history of support.

    Sadly I am buying the expansion, not because I am excited by anything they created or any of the hype. Last I checked Ctof has about 1/2 to 3/4 what we were promised when it was originally hyped. It is only because we are a raiding guild. That being said, given CtoF and how RoF was released I wont be buying three copies of the expansion; one for the main and the others for boxes, and if this nerf is true I will deactivate two of the three accounts because they hold 0 value to me.

    I know what my future will hold for the next 2 months: I will fight and complain with others over who had right to kill mob x cause everyone is trying to get out of the first two zones. Guildies will show up and we will slaughter everything in the zone. Raid guilds will be the only ones with the right make ups during prime time to advance (Trackers and DPS to just flat out blow the mob out). All in a mad dash for 105 so that the final raids in CToF (For the mid-tier raiding guilds) will be a little easier to take down and we can start raiding the content. Due to the way the devs have setup spell focus more than likely I will farm wrists and arms for casters with guildies to get the 101-105 spells enhanced. Someone will farm the necks for the healers, these camps will be largely sought after in the initial stages of the game, making it tough on the casual player.

    When I hit 105 I will more than likely go back to HoT with my character (Yep House of Thule). The expansion is fun to goof around in and now the raids are two and three team groupable it is nice.

    I just hope I can hit 105 prior to the release of the New Dragon Age game. If you think about it SoE is really screwing the pooch on this. People like me are going to spend less for the boxes, and less time in the game if this ends up being a mad house. Which means I won't be purchasing pts for the Store, I won't be tempted to add things to the accounts, or bring in the boxes. Essentially the development and marketing team should be working together to figure out how to keep someone in their seat as long as possible because it gives you the most face time with a consumer. Instead of what will end up happening, there is a line an hour long to do quest x and I have 1 hour to play .... /camp
    Lisandra likes this.
  8. Casidia Augur

    Your son was smart for trying to get you out of this, as much as i like your original post it's sad to see how Eq1 works now. Mature people (the young ones left anyway) who cannot stop playing in an endless loop. It really helps to try different things, your mood will become better there are many good single player games to explore too.

    Special tip...get The Longest Journey, a heart warming adventure game (part 1, old...99 or so).
    You won't regret that trip.
    Lisandra likes this.
  9. Jonny Panic Augur

    Lichner, I salute your service, am grateful for the thoughtfulness of your post and hope the best for you wherever you go and whatever game you play.
    This OP addresses the big picture when it comes to what is going wrong with EQ. I hope SOE pays attention and actually listens; I know they won't, but I can hope.
    Lisandra likes this.
  10. Reht The Dude abides...

    Lichner and Apothikus, thank you for eloquently explaining what a lot of us are feeling. I hope someone with the power to right the ship actually reads it.

    Monday announcement?
    Lisandra, Azzurri and YellowBelly like this.
  11. Naugrin Augur

    Thank you for posting this and good luck to you and your son.
    Leerah and Lisandra like this.
  12. iniari-TR Augur

    I am hoping that with a full year ahead to work on content, that they go back to design that people liked about the game..

    make large zones with new artwork - no cut / paste jobs. map areas with safe camps.

    fairly easy to get around without running into walls of see invis , summoning / immune to everything mobs.


    long tasks to keep us busy with a nice aug or clickie as the reward.


    some people liked the HA's. I didn't. I do not consider a small tiny zone with a bunch of instant-zone in tasks as "content". EQ was great because it was a very immersive game. but it has become a game of boxing / moloing and repeating the same task over and over.


    the EQ staff has found itself hoisted by their own petard.
    it was a good idea to introduce the ftp / microtransaction mode. - not everyone wants to pay 15 bucks a month just to play.
    the creation of defiant armor and mercs to make things easier for the casual player
    and the introduction of the heroic toons which got a lot of older folks to return and some newer people.
    however ,
    they are now trying to encourage all those players to push to level 105 and to purchase new expansions and full accounts. while at the same time , due to the failure of the "staggard release mode " having to slow the progress though the endgame content.

    I am hoping that the folks at SOE take this time to invest in a great expansion, stop the nerfs and give people the power / abilities / play-style that we like. - rather then following someones "vision" of what the game is supposed to be - listen to the players.
    and I hope they are not just letting EQ slide into oblivion with the hope that folks will migrate to EQnext - because that wont happen for most of the hardcore EQ players.

    Everquest has been a great success for SOE, but most other attempts have been lukewarm or utter failures due to poor support. - VG turned into a comedy of errors. , The Agency - hyped for 2 years then turned into a facebook game. EQ2 and duoc and other titles - good for the younger casual players but nothing for the really hardcore / more mature folks.

    I will be buying the regular expansion for my 1 account - and hope that I have fun and hope that SOE shows real commitment to Everquest.
  13. Metanis Bad Company

    Wonderful posts Lichner and Apothikus! As a multi-boxing 60 year old raid cleric I really appreciate your thoughts and situation. I know many EQ players that are "seasoned" citizens. I'm bemused by the management at SOE. Do they ever elicit customer demographic studies? Do they actually know who has been buying expansions, subscribing (without fail), and playing this game every year since 1999? When was the last time they performed an in-game survey? When was the last time they actually logged into the game and talked to players?

    On a plus note, with the reduced server populations they will be able to merge us all into one big happy family! Then there will be enough players for at least 5 or 6 viable raiding guilds! (For those few events we'll have available.) I nominate Veeshan for the name of the last official EQ server. (/sarc off)
    Leerah and Lisandra like this.
  14. Janakin Augur

    On another thread a post from a devs twitter account said they would post today what their changes are going to be based on all the feedback.
    Lisandra likes this.
  15. Reht The Dude abides...

    Appreciate the info, thanks!
  16. Reviled Elder

    Yea, I got Thom Terrazas to respond to a couple questions on twitter, and he said they would have more information to share Monday (Today) regarding HAs, lockouts, and rewards.
    Lisandra and Janakin like this.
  17. Mardy Augur

    Good post, thanks for a good read. SOE has been doing the bare minimal for its EQ1 playerbase for quite a long time now. A lot of what is being said have been echoed for many years. Players for the most part have been simply forking over the money for expansions & station cash just for the sake of keeping in touch with this game. There's an ongoing love/hate relationship people have with SOE. What they don't get is that people are in love with Everquest, the game that got many into this genre in the first place. People are not necessarily in love with SOE as a whole. Perhaps this expansion is the straw that breaks the camel's back.

    I've said this before, but the only way for corporate upper management to hear you isn't through posts, SOE live, or social media. It's through your wallets. The only time they will really do something about bad service or product, no matter the industry, is when enough people have left to make them raise their eyebrows. The OP is doing the right thing by finally calling it, saying enough is enough. If more players follow his example, then maybe, just maybe, SOE upper management will do something to correct such mistreatment of their playerbase...the playerbase that got their company where they are today.

    People can complain, as we've all done so many many times in the past. But there is really no incentive for a corporation to do better if the money flow continues. Those of you that buy the expansion de facto each and every year regardless of quality should know you are part of what got EQ where it is today. By supporting mediocrity, you give SOE the incentive to continue mediocrity. For many you are reluctant to make a move, because you've been with EQ1 for so long. I can understand that, but it isn't as hard as you may think. You've been jaded and gotten used to getting milked here, you have no idea how expensive it is to play Everquest. You think it is the norm in the genre to pay for lackluster yearly expansions, monthly subscriptions, lots of money on station cash, and for multiple accounts. Let me tell you, it is not.

    I definitely recommend GW2 for those looking for a true F2P game, one that does not limit you so much that any full-time player would have to pay for a monthly subscription such as we do here. GW2 is truly F2P and their cash shops are truly mostly cosmetic items, something SOE has trouble keeping their promises with regards to station cash. You buy the game once, you get to play your hearts out, and you don't need multiple accounts to enjoy GW2.

    For those looking to see what it's like playing a game that the company focus on and care for, WoW is also a good place to be. It's a game where you pay monthly subscription, but you get ALL of it, you are not nickel & dimed via cash shops. There are hundreds of fluff, pets, and mounts to collect all within the game's content. Blizzard has not branched out to cater to multiple titles, so you always feel like you're well taken care of as a subscriber. And they really do release content patches in between expansions. 1 account and you should be able to enjoy the game, and have access to play with thousands of others due to its accessibility to content for all via raid & dungeon finder.

    Lastly for those looking for a different graphical style than GW2/WoW, I highly recommend giving Elder Scrolls Online a try. Its graphics engine is beautiful, more mature. It has tons of great PvE content, as well as PvP content for those looking to mix it up. It's a subscription game, and you are not nickel & dimed via cash shops. You get it all with your monthly subscription. It's also not a game you need to have multiple accounts in order to have fun in. The game runs on mega server as well so you are not punished for your server choices.

    I'm by no means trying to pull people away, I'm merely pointing out that there are indeed choices out there. Playing EQ1 is expensive, more than it needs to be for such an old game, one that has bare minimal resources & dev team assigned to by SOE upper management. You are not being treated like a valued customer. What you experience here is not the norm. But then this is a product of a company choosing to go with quantity vs quality, you're just a number to them. This is why they won't notice your complaints unless the numbers change significantly. As a player who comes back to EQ off and on over the past 15 years, I would love nothing more to see SOE giving this game the attention it deserves, the resources & manpower it needs. I would love to see EQ get quality expansions again, or see things like the progression servers which have always proven to be a popular addition whenever a new one launches. It's just really sad to see EQ, what was once the #1 game in the MMORPG genre from 1999-2004, become what it is today. A shadow of its former self. It is run by a company that have stretched its resources thin by trying to develop & manage too many games (none of which are chart breaking games), while charging players premium money for both monthly subscriptions as well as cash shop items.
    Lisandra and Mysl like this.
  18. Mysl Augur

    Well, I notice the huge threads about the lockouts and xp nerf are gone once they locked it. So, I guess it is business as usual. It is sad to see long term players going away,
  19. sojero One hit wonder


    The thread is still there. Click on "sense heading" on the left hand side and you will see it as the second post.
  20. Magery New Member

    Great post, you put to words how I feel on many points better then i could have. I too have already cancelled this sub in protest, its final month is counting down.

    I cannot help to get the feeling that EQ is now just a social/business experiment for SOE. It feels like they are using us to see what they can get away with for their future games.

    Its a dangerous game, you cannot hide from your past. Make things right with your players and stop the nonsense.
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