ONE account, ONE character at a time, SUSPENDED????

Discussion in 'Player Support' started by Harrison1, Oct 16, 2020.

  1. Brosa Augur

    Friend recently received a 7 day suspension and a 14 day suspension over the past 4 weeks or so. He couldn't get any information out of DBG as to why. Just the mentioned responses above. He only plays one account so the "cheating" and 'True Box" rule breaking was very shocking to him. He shrugged off the first suspension as a mistake by DBG and the fact he couldn't get anywhere with DBG. But now that he has been suspended for 14 days guildies discussed why it may be that he is getting suspended. Come to find out he started working remotely from home in these days of covid and they installed vpn software so he can remote into his work. BAM there you have it! He had been logging into to do work stuff while playing eq.

    Its very very poor customer service on the part of DBG not to help people figure out why these suspensions are happening.
    Svann2 and Bardy McFly like this.
  2. Harrison1 New Member

    That's really interesting and concerning. As I explained many times already in my OP, I'm not playing EQ because I'm working from home or whatever so I don't have software running in the background. This laptop wouldn't even be able to hold a ZOOM meeting with friends without it crashing sometimes so this is really crazy I get hit for this. I'm really concern now because I feel like this might happen again...
  3. MmmmBop New Member

    I can just imagine some of the people in this thread in a position of power...

    ---On a late evening at the local 7-11---

    Officer Catspaws: "Hello maam, I just got a report that you were robbed at gunpoint in your vehicle. Is that correct?"

    Victim: "Yes officer Catspaws! Please help me. A young man, maybe 20 years old in a tie-dye hoodie smashed my windo..."

    Officer Catspaws: "Sorry to interrupt maam, but I just noticed that you aren't wearing your seatbelt."

    Victim: "Ummm... no. I live just a block away and must have forgotten to put it on. Is that a problem?"

    Officer Catspaws: "Wearing seatbelts are the law under local code section 38B-10-4(B). Before we get back to the robbery though, can I see your license and registration?"

    Victim: "Ummm... OK? ... Here you go officer."

    Officer Catspaws: "Thank you. I'll be back in just a moment."

    ---five minutes pass---

    Officer Catspaws: "Here you go maam. Your license, registration, and a citation for failing to wear a seatbelt. I am sorry maam, I don't write the laws, I just enforce them."

    Victim: "Are you serious?... nevermind, whatever... The guy in the tie-dye hoodi..."

    Officer Catspaws: "Maam. Were there any other witnesses to this happening?"

    Victim: "No, I don't think so, but my camera phone was recording and got a view of his face I think."

    Officer Catspaws: "You just admitted to me that you were not wearing your seatbelt. You have no credibility at this point. How do I know you weren't behind this and the video isn't a set up for a fake insurance claim or something?"

    Victim: "... I... I just don't want this to happen to anyone else or happen to me again. This guy is really dangerous!"

    Officer Catspaws: "I'm sorry maam, I truly am, but there is nothing I can do at this point. You broke the law and have no credibility."

    Victim: "But what about..."

    Officer Catspaws: "MAAM! This conversation is over. Go home and enjoy the rest of your evening and tomorrow will be better. Good night!"

  4. Skuz Augur

    And that's why I have never, ever used a computer I carried out work on for my job to play any games.

    Keep the two separate & you will never have a problem.

    The probem you see is a lot of the cheaters used VPN to workaround a lot of the truebox restrictions, if your account has the IP logged bouncing around different addresses it's a surefire way to say you are using a VPN, the reason most VPN users get into trouble is they sometimes log in with a VPN sometimes not, you either do it always without or always with or you will run into problems fast.

    I've used a paid VPN service with games in the past (to reduce ping & reduce packet loss as the ISP I used was wrecking my connection with sloppy traffic management) so they can be better with it, but you can't half-a** it.
  5. iDidNotCheat New Member

    I just got my account suspended for 7 days and I have no idea why, but now I'm wondering if this is related. I use a split tunnel VPN for work at home during COVID. It should not be sending EQ traffic through the VPN. I frequently take a break from work and check a rare spawn on EQ. Wondering if this is what happened. They only said I was cheating, but I never cheat in games. I don't run 3rd party programs. I never harass anyone. I never rip anyone off. I play a single account. I can't figure out what they could possibly think I did wrong.
  6. Corwyhn Lionheart Augur

    I think they need to have an up front warning on the launcher and a specific entry in the knowledge base on VPNs. Let folks specifically know they can get suspended or banned for using them.

    They could have in Server names a (NO VPN) notice at the server listing screen.

    Yes some skip the launcher but since daybreak doesn't support that you take your chances when doing so.
    Svann2 and Nennius like this.
  7. Poonghie New Member

    On what do you base your determination that no EQ traffic is sent through the VPN?

    The way I imagine this might work, is that they could use the MAC address of the network adapter to determine uniqueness of a connection to EQ. If you connect two instances of EQ to the same server from the same computer using the same network adapter, they'd both have the same MAC address. (This has nothing to do with IP address, as typically every computer/device in a particular home has the same internet-visible IP address - one per internet service.)

    VPN adapters are "virtual" (software) network adapters that I imagine also have a unique MAC address (different than your physical network adapter). So in theory, if EQ is using MAC address as a indicator of machine-uniqueness, then connecting to EQ twice on the same box, once with the regular physical network adapter, and once with the virtual VPN adapter, you'd be sending traffic to EQ from two different MAC addresses, which might "look like" two separate physical computers to EQ.

    But this is unlikely the full extent of the data they would use to determine uniqueness. Perhaps some additional bit of data they scrape from your machine as a signature of your machine's uniqueness, is also occasionally sent to the server. If they were to ever get the same machine-signature data sent from two separate MAC addresses, that could be an indicator of cheating (although a split-tunnel VPN could also cause this, if outbound data to EQ is sometimes travelling over the VPN connection, and sometimes not.)

    As an aside, I don't play on TLPs, but it's reassuring to hear that they are doing their best to stay on top of TrueBox rule breaking. Also, OP is guilty.
  8. Bardy McFly Elder

    Honestly, if it is a VPN issue then they should just tell the player in that specific circumstance. It's no secret and not sneaky or unknown that VPN detection is a thing and an issue with this game, and with the Covid world we live in now more and more people are using them. I can guarantee you that people hit with a cheating ban for VPN without being told that's the reason are just going to get hit with another worse ban because it's so unobvious to a lot of people that it is an issue and so easy to accidentally stay connected to one, getting flagged without even realizing what you've actually done. Might save a lot of CS headaches, too.
    Svann2 and Corwyhn Lionheart like this.
  9. cadres Augur

    Very much this
    What seems to be very unappreciated across this game, is that it is played by people of a very wide range of technical competences
    It is also played by people of a wide range of ages and other gaming experience
    Many many players have no idea what a VPN is, how to set one up, what it's used for etc etc (eg me - not a scooby)
    A friend got in trouble on another server for the VPN thing after using someone else's computer which was set up in that way

    If DBG is serious about not unjustly penalising folk for innocent errors they need to
    a) be much more open about these issues, providing clear examples of what is and is not acceptable
    b) use warnings/be helpful rather than going straight to suspension/ban

    I'm all for a crack down on people who are actually exploiting/cheating, but really don't want to see folk who had no idea they were doing anything wrong destroyed as collateral damage
    Xyphen and Bardy McFly like this.
  10. Corwyhn Lionheart Augur

    Other then being clearer for what was done Daybreak doesn't have much choice. If they accepted the "I didn't know defense" then everyone would suddenly be struck dumb when it comes to VPNs.

    I just don't know what the reasoning is to never telling folks right off what they did wrong. The only thing I can think of is that daybreak figures folks would use this info to avoid being caught the next time.

    I would like to see clearer explanations given to folk though so that if they do inadvertently get a suspension that they have a chance to fix the issue.
    Bardy McFly likes this.
  11. cadres Augur

    I agree with your first point - or I would....
    DBG put somewhere an clear explanation of what a VPN is, why they are banned, examples of VPNs and how to recognise if you're on a computer which is using one (yes there is google, but finding clear information when your knowledge of computing is negligible is far from straightforward)

    In fact, having spoken to my friend and both checked, we can't actually find anything in the ToS that bans use of VPNs
    (we may have missed it if it's called something else)

    Really this is about clarity
    Sure we don't want to give advantages to cheaters
    But protecting innocent players from inadvertently breaking rules/unwarranted bans is also important
    Which comes back to my original point - given the very wide constituency of EQ players, DBG really has to ensure the rules and the implementation of those rules is for purpose
  12. NeoSpring New Member

    Currently, the company is turning towards a crackdown , they are suspending people left and right on the true box servers. I play in an all box guild , and we are seeing characters getting suspended weekly. If they don't settle down soon on this topic , they could see a net loss of at least 1000$ a month due to us all quitting =P I am unsure why a company wants to remove their profits from their pockets. So , its not just you suffering , its all of us. I am sorry you had to experience this, its very frustrating.
  13. nemotech Lorekeeper

    While I understand the idea behind people quitting and a Co. losing money, this is simply not happening. As to VPN's, much depends on the service and company you choose for VPN services. Most offer a range of servers to connect to and varying encryption. Both of these can lead to false positives. ie if you select or simply thru not knowing initiate VPN to a server/IP address outside of your state or even country, it can look as tho someone elsewhere has breached your account. so if DB keeps a tab on IP addresses per account (I don't know if they do) and then a new IP from well outside the pool normally used attempts to log in it could be evidence of a compromised account (this to protect customers). If this happens in proximity to a log in from the "norm" addresses can raise suspicion as well. I think this is not too likely as I am required to use a VPN for work, and have accidentally not disconnected (from my VPN same state and City where I live) to log in and say hello on my lunch break etc and I have had 0 issues but, I dont play on TLP or True Box servers. Encryption can/could also cause issues. there are several methods used and depending on what steps and detection methods are in use in/on log in and servers. However I doubt encryption would do lil more than add some delay in packets (marginal delays). I think the foremost red flag will be for VM (Virtual Machines) I will not go into those, as all most need to know about them is 1) they do have legit uses, and are great for a number of reasons and purposes and in many situations just not playing EQ. 2) they can and have been used to run multiple clients on EQ simply to cheat. All in all it really comes down to clear communication, and customers reading and understanding what the ToS and EULA we agree to says. Sharing an account with a spouse is tech a breach of ToS but, it is also completely understandable and done by just about every one who has a spouse or S.O. that plays. DB does not want to suspend or punish arbitrarily but, we live in a time that has many variables never experienced before. this includes more True Box and TLP's (fewer staff / offsite staff). Sadly some who profit thru games are real and doing it right now. By and by, I have found that a calm, measured and detailed correspondence with CSR usually leads to remedy. If ToS was broken, regardless of ignorance or with intent, there are consequences (I have not known CS to be completely indifferent, mostly bound to SoP's). This makes me think about the "Software's which must never be named" threads. VPN rules and possible issues should most definitely be on FAQ (VM are clearly NOT allowed and are in the FAQ). No one said they had perm bans. Frustrating? yes! its a game, play another until you are not grounded ;) , if you are really angry... take your PC and go play else where.
  14. Slasher Augur

    VPN doesn't hide who you're guys. I'm not sure they're banning for VPN when the second you install the launcher they know your hardware ID and can easily determine who is who despite using a VPN or not and yes I can say 100% they know your hardware ID.
    Nennius and CatsPaws like this.
  15. Nennius Curmudgeon

    Can anyone provide a link concerning VPN's from the folks here at Daybreak? Something about them being allowed or not and if there are any restrictions on their use. I have never used one, and don't plan to, but I have a good friend who is moving to Europe and he was curious about this issue.

    I found this from Skuz:

    "Yes you can, I used to use one as it altered the routing to the server & bypassed a problematic node in France that at the time was having severe issues routing traffic from a lot of the UK where I live. I have also used VPN to really lower ping/flutter problems I had with my former ISP.

    The thing you have to be very wary of is if you use a VPN you must stick to the VPN consistently, if you swap back & forth from a VPN to no VPN frequently you will get your account flagged & you may risk a suspension or ban as a result & this can happen for many online games. This is especially problematic if the IP address of the VPN is in a very different locaility to your own."

    But, I am really looking for an official statement. If one exists.
  16. nemotech Lorekeeper

    GPU/CPU, OS and RAM sure. these are req to configure and allocate resources for a system. Hardware ID are not unique tho by and large (even MAC can be hidden/changed and yes, forged), ie my GTX 2060 has the exact same hardware id as anyone else who owns an MSI GTX 2060 etc, etc. while systems with same Mobo, CPU, GPU do exists, ie Dell, HP, Asus etc... these models, if playing exactly as built by manufacturer, will all have the same hardware ID (used by manufacturers OS, Drivers etc and listed with the FCC in the USA) and Browser info. I am just saying Hardware ID is not like a DNA sample, that positively ID's a person. I do not think VPN are reason or cause for ban's (except in extreme situations and likely there is/was likely evidence to suspect an IP aside from VPN use) if I buy a say Dell XPS and my Brother in a diff part of the country buys the exact same model, we both use same VPN and chose the same server to connect to VPN, Hardware ID and IP pool, without extensive forensics and investigation would be difficult ID us (service tags for dells are not collected). I think when bans are applied a basic litmus is met and usually applied for 3-7 days. I think there are far more bans for behavior etc than cheating using 3rd party and such. not a how to.. dont friggin Cheat! but I am at work, on a break and Bored outta my mind :confused: Most people do not need a VPN. most will never need to use one. others need for work and then there are some who insist... paranoids like my brother o_O
  17. VerticallyChallenged New Member

    I have recently been suspended on my main account as well. No explanation at all. At least you guys were told it was for boxing! I do have two accounts, but they are never logged in at the same time on any Truebox server.

    Nemotech, saying "No one said they had perm bans. Frustrating? yes! its a game, play another until you are not grounded ;) , if you are really angry... take your PC and go play else where." is easy to say when you are not the one experiencing this problem. Even parents will tell their children what they have done when they are being punished. I just got the standard response as follows:

    "After reviewing your case it appears the account in question has been suspended for 7 days for cheating.

    We do not disclose our findings in these cases as doing so could enable 3rd parties to better circumvent detection, however we are confident the account was not suspended in error.

    Please refrain from continuing this behavior when the suspension has lifted, as additional violations of this nature may result in further account action."

    I am wondering if my case was truly reviewed or did I just get the boilerplate response?

    I can completely understand cases where revealing methods used for detection would be counterproductive and allow 3rd parties to better circumvent detection, but I do not use ANY 3rd party programs whatsoever. But.. you should be able to describe the issue in general without revealing any detection methods.

    I have been playing this game for over 20 years and know the rules very well. I cannot think of anything I have done incorrectly or what might have been perceived as cheating. How could I possibly avoid what ever the issue was?

    In virtually any other situation.. even in a court of law.. you are told what you did wrong. Even in some countries where you are considered guilty and not even allowed a defense, you are still informed of what you are accused of.

    I am about as honest as it gets in the game. In fact, some of my guildmates think I have an overdeveloped sense of fair play. I respect "camps" even if DBG does not. I "take turns" on contested mobs. I am completely at a loss as to how I supposedly 'cheated'.

    I am not seeking to know anything about any detection methods. I just want to know why and to explain any circumstances surrounding the event. I should be able to defend myself.

    - Vertically Challenged
    Dwarf Cleric - on virtually every server - Started on Bertoxx, currently playing on Aradune
  18. Svann2 The Magnificent

    Does it actually say you cant use a vpn in tos or in the truebox login?
  19. Slasher Augur

    Do you think they only identify the brand/model of your hardware ? They do and can use hardware id as a unique identifier. You're just wrong you will NEVER find 2 PCs with the same hardware ID because they don't just use 3 or 4 things to generate that.
  20. Jtetartlagueule New Member

    Amen to that! Live and let live.

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