When they changed the race xp rates they were thinking of live and didn't seem to consider TLPs. Ogres are unequivocally the best tanks classic-Luclin. Let's not kid ourselves, this is the TLP forum and those expansions matter the most for TLPs before the game gets that theme park feel and 75% of the people leave. Iksars are unequivocally the best race for necros without the xp penalty. I don't think players want equality and every race to be the same, we just don't want such a clear cut best race/class combo to the point where choosing anything else becomes a bad choice. Yes we know that it makes sense that an ogre should tank better than a halfling, but it also makes sense that ogres, Iksar, etc. should learn slower than other races. Maybe they can balance it and give the game more flavor by giving different races their own stat caps, i.e. a halfling can never attain the STR and STA of an ogre, but they can attain much higher AGI (damage mitigation) and DEX (proc agro).
There is no reason to punish players of those races with slower xp because the racial benefits that they get eventually won't matter at all. Not to mention there are penalties to those races besides the slower xp that they used to have. There is also no need to remove the racial benefits as in the end most of them really don't matter long term.
Correct, and this thread appears to be a request to change that as the OP doesn't seem to like it that Ogres have stun immunity and thus are the "best" tank choice in classic.
1. This is the TLP forums where 90% of players are concerned with Classic-PoP where those benefits do matter. 2. You are arguing that they don't need an xp penalty because those benefits go away, but simultaneously argue that they don't need an xp penalty because they have racial penalties (as if they don't go away also). That is a shifting goalpost logical fallacy. 3. The huge HP regeneration rate of Iksar never goes away, it just matters slightly less. There is no Iksar regeneration rate AA for non Iksar later on like there is frontal stun immunity AA. I'll make this real simple. In classic EQ each race had pluses and minuses. They removed the pluses from some races while simultaneously removing the minuses from others with no other changes to keep balance.
EverQuest wasn't designed with equality or egalitarianism in mind, it was based on MUDs & D&D & other old RPG games. Ogres do have downsides, evil so hated in most towns, big well huge actually means they have difficulties moving around many places, while their Strength & Stamina starting stats are larger they are hampered by lower agility, wisdom & intelligence. Overall I think the racial bonuses mostly fit the races, Ogres are huge dumb & literally thick-skulled which is why they got the melee frontal stun immunity.
I say go the other way: expand bonuses so every race has something interesting. One of the coolest things about EQ was how much every choice mattered. Modern MMOs have largely done away with that, sanitizing the experience so that race is network cosmetic. Give Humans the xp bonus they were supposed to have, give Halflings an innate dodge bonus, etc. And let Ogres keep their stun immunity.
Gotcha. Yeah I disagree with even from min max perspective its so small for a fraction. Besides we all know Halflings and Dark Elves are the superior tanks, wood elves are right up there. Best swing animations. Correct me if I am wrong but I thought there was stun resist focus items raid tier items prePOP. I have been gone awhile. Anyway they need to give halflings back the exp bonus. And triple down on nerfing ogre and troll xp cus I am tired asf of them body blocking zones.
Name 1 racial bonus that was taken away besides halfling xp bonus? That's all you got. Because none of the other bonuses were removed. And halfings weren't even targetted for that, they just normalized the experience across the board for all races and classes so everyone levels at the same rate. Barbarians still get Slam and +10 Cold Resist Dark Elves still get Ultravision and 50 points of Hide Drakkin still have Dragon Breath Dwarves still get Infravision and +5 to Poison & Magic resist Erudites still get highest starting intelligence and +5 magic resist Frogloks still get Infravision and 125 points of Swimming Gnomes still get Infravision and Tinkering Half-Elves still get Infravision Halflings still get Infravision, 50 points of Hide, 50 points of Sneak, +5 Poison Resist, and +5 Disease Resist High Elves still get Infravision Iksars still get Infravision, Regen, AC bonus, 100 points of Swimming, and 50 points of Forage Ogres still get Infravision, Slam, Frontal melee stun immunity, and consume food and drink faster Trolls still get Infravision, Slam, Regen, and -20 Fire resist Vah Shir still get Infravision and Safe Fall Wood Elves still get Infravision, 50 points of Hide, and 50 points of Forage This is not even considering other things tied to a race like class selection, diety, and faction. The only bonuses/penalties that have been removed were to experience rate, and Halfings still have the largest quantity of bonuses. I do not want to see every race made the same, but if that's what you're going for then you not only have to remove fronal melee stun immunity from ogres, you have to remove everything listed here, make every class available to every race, make every race have the same starting stats, size, and faction. No thanks. If you think fronal melee stun immunity is so overwhelmingly powerful, then be an ogre. Oh, you don't want to be an ogre? Why not? There are drawbacks to being an ogre that you don't think make up for frontal melee stun immunity? I guess that means Ogres racial bonuses still aren't even good enough to make them a desirable race to play. Sounds like you're making an argument to buff them, but you're just a spiteful person so you want them nerfed instead.
They stole it, it was originally intended to be the Human Racial Bonus. So nope to them thieving bastages getting it back.
No one has problems with canni and HP lmao. I mean I guess if you never solo anything, sure go Troll. Soloing with torpor is a lot of fun on an ogre. Plus.... O G R E. Iksar regen is the best racial when in relation to necros for obvious reasons. That is correct.
1. Classic-PoP is only a small part of the TLP experience and we should not be nerfing the rest of the game because some players refuse to play any other content. 2. No, I am arguing that they need no change just because some prefer them for that ability early on in a TLP servers life. When looking at an ability you need to look at more then just how it interacts with a small portion of the game. 3. From what I understand the Iskar regen bonus is under 20hp per tick which becomes a trivial amount soon enough. There is no reason to take away these bonuses from races and end up making the only differences between each race be faction/graphical ones or make it slightly harder to level. People know the best routes to level so it would just be a minor slowdown at most.
I disagree, and I think they should go in the opposite direction. Races should be more distinct than they are, not watered down further. Meta slaves ruin every RPG and will always exist, but you shouldn't sacrifice a game's soul because of the min/max munchkins. For example, give HUMANS the XP bonus they were always meant to have. Those disgusting halflings got it because of a typo. Also, delete halflings. It would be great if every race was different and added their own flavor to the game.
They are the "best" tanks in classic - GOD. This isn't speculation. When a tank can't be stunned, they're going to put out more threat, be able to summon tank better, and overall be superior in those factors. I didn't call purely for a nerf, I asked that stun immunity be given to tank classes earlier if they take it away from ogres. It would balance out the class / race and let there be more diversity. A lot of people are mentioning "oh lets just make the races all the same", but they've already done that with 90% of the races by taking away bonuses, penalties, and other perks. I've played on 3 TLP's now, and 90% of SK's and Warriors running around are ogres until the AA's come out. My issue is when a race is so dominant that everyone picks it for their perk, then it's unbalanced. It's the same reason almost everyone plays monks and nobody plays rogues in classic. People mentioned gnomes and tinkering, but you don't see every single caster class, rogue, cleric going gnome for the tinkering perk. I honestly don't expect it to change, but forums are for bringing up things and discussion.
This I can completely agree with. The general message of my OP was more about balancing out the races somewhat. Right now there are just some races that have zero benefit to play other than you aesthetically like them, while others are objectively stronger as certain classes.
