Discussion in 'News and Announcements' started by Accendo, May 10, 2023.
sorry , I was not going to break it down into individual quotes. I am at work , so I filled it in between the original breaks.
Not true. You ought to watch the dozens of interviews of the original EQ development team done by aLovingRobot on YouTube.
(3) aLovingRobot - YouTube
The years that the original EQ team spent working on the game and playing the game were some of the best times of their lives.
Not a single one of these guys that were interviewed said anything about it affecting their health or being unsustainable. They absolutely loved it.
You're suggesting that the devs would have been healthier if they went home and played a different game instead of EQ... Have you never been passionate about something?
These guys didn't go home after work and play EQ because they had to, they played EQ at home because they wanted to. They loved what they were creating.
If Oakwynd launches with FTE its a wasted server....wont be touching it, will just stay on Mischief.
They will never, ever, bring back GM's to enforce any "Play Nice Policy". They got burned trying to help schedule raids back when Ragefire and Thornblade were the latest and greatest. The attempt to enforce Two Box on Aradune definitely didn't go well either.
I'm confused why people are acting as if there is a chance FTE doesn't go live based off this update. It clearly says:
Here is what we recently covered on the forums that has been changed for Oakwynd’s launch:
FTE plans haven't changed, so why would it be mentioned here.
Enjoy the dumpster fire!
Don't need a GM to enforce any Play Nice Policy, just to hunt and ban cheaters. That would make a difference.
Until Oakwynd actually goes live with FTE in place then there is always a chance that they will see the light and reconsider.
But yeah ... I am not exactly holding my breath expecting that to happen.
However, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be telling them of all the reasons that they ought to reconsider this train wreck waiting to happen (pun intended).
Biased perspective at work.
What you saw as them loving what they were doing I saw as obsessive overwork, many of the devs had severe burnout no matter how fondly they recalled their time, several do actually say looking back how utterly crazy they were to have done that, not everyone made it through unscathed from that work style, relationship breakdowns, substance abuse, depression a lot of that doesn't get covered in depth but is easily found around the industry and the EQ devs were in no way immune to that.
Nostalgia has a funny way of making everything look and feel like it was a great time when it was hell & damaged people, passion is great but allowing it to overcome psychological limitations comes at a cost.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
Literally everyone I know has gone through relationship breakdowns, substance abuse and depression and none of them were EQ devs. These things are just the facts of life.
man, this got dark
I think that's putting your head in the sand.
The reasons these things happen are complex, work can be protective of mental health when it is good, but when it is bad it can be the sole reason for poor or even dangerous mental health, people who have everything else in their life going pretty great can have massive problems due to unhealthy work practices that simply pay no heed to their worker's well-being, bad bosses & companies in the industry were almost famed for their chew-them-up-and-spit-them-out attitudes and many people have little-choice where they are working, in many towns there can be few employers and particularly in the USA the state laws can make things even worse. The "Crunch-culture" in games development is pretty high on the radar of bad work practices.
And even where the developers themselves are super-passionate and the long hours become self-inflicted companies should be protecting their employees from themselves or they risk losing great talent to burn out.
Lol everyone knows that developers are often expected to work lots of overtime. It's called the death march. I've been a professional software developer for 14 years. Regardless, you've taken this topic way off track.
In my original post I was merely pointing out the fact that the original EQ dev team remembers their time working on EQ as some of the best times of their lives and that's why they created such an incredible game. They woke up in the morning excited to go to work, and after work they were excited to enjoy their creation.
Now, you're saying that working on video games ruined their lives and ruins dev's lives in general
The fact that the original EQ dev team is so nostalgic about their time working on the product reinforces the fact that these were positive times in their lives. People don't have nostalgia about negative times in their lives, despite what you might think. That's not how nostalgia works.
Clearly you haven't watched the 20+ interviews of the original EQ dev team on aLovingRobot's channel.
Lol yeah, in my original post I simply said that EQ was so groundbreaking and fun because the dev team was super passionate about working on the product, so much so that after work they would enjoy playing the product all night with their friends.
Then Skuz had to reply and suggest that the dev team were all depressed alcoholics going through breakups.
It's called rationalization. It's crazy in my industry right now, fortunately I'm almost done (old). I call them "Satan's white knights" (Or knights with white Satans)
Random objective observer: "We are being asked to risk losing our health and minds and any outside life! And how can we even do quality work under these conditions!"
The White Knight of Hell: "It's always been this way!"
In my industry (higher ed) do you know the new trend is, faculty only get paid a 9 month salary, since that is technically how long the semesters are combined? And there are people who say "This isn't all that new." ROFL. Yes it is. Summer is when you are supposed to be getting caught up with your discipline, and designing classes. And, unwind from having to keep track of batches of 100+ minds, Fall and Spring.
In many industries, things are not "always this way." That is pure copium. I call it Titanic syndrome. Some people refuse to think a ship "sinks" sometimes.
Sunk cost fallacy! Woot!
It's about the degree it gets taken to, and its still a problem.
That's really not what you you did & you know it.
You implied direct comparison between the game being great in the past because of the obsessive passion & perma-crunch-mode of yesteryear to the healthier dev environment that produces sub-par results today.
It ruined the lives of some, as in not everyone escaped unscathed, probably few escaped without having at least some mental scars from it. I never suggested they were all wrecked.
Memories & people's relationship to them change over time & people absolutely can get nostalgic about ceratin aspects of even the most awful times. It is actually a function of most normal human beings to be too optimistic, objective realism is warped by that & looking back on things the fond memories are remembered in a different way to the bad ones, we actively try to not recall the worst ones because to remember them can be emotionally painful to relive them, that's how trauma damages people.
Probably watched them all, and while there are a great many fond memories & great stories shared, there are hints to the observant that these were absolutely some very tough environments at times, no matter how passionate people were they were almost certainly working way too hard to be healthy for them at times.
You should also try to bear in mind that people being nostalgic & proud of their careers can still happen even when they got put through the ringer, chewed up, burnt up & spat out by the work demands, or by their own drive to succeed & pride to craft a great game.
Of course not everyone is going to see the nuances there, some folks can't see more than a black or white image even if the painting they are looking at has millions of colours.
better remove this before the ban.
Go Go Launch Lol - Launch it - ignore these
just go heh, everyone here is not on test, i was just there.
oh but launch a new inst after ONE grp not 35 players
launchin a new inst sooner than 40 clowns will solve a lotta everything - unless u all pay by the VM.. or instance
or just let me pay 1 kr to open a new instance - removes the need for, pretty much all this and is a quick code in
and its an easy back out like look people ok here is a new server, u already pay to play, you pay more to pl, here have at it. - an just walk away
also accept a declining income, no one is going to come back, the curve is going to go down for ever
oh an use baseline credit reports when weighing opinions. 1000 clowns with 0 kr - 0 opinion, but they shur do post a lot.1 guy, or gal, with 10000kr, wont post. but thats two software engineers salary already. I pay over xxxxx a yr here, and I am a lowbie kekeke.. I'd hate to think, someone would listen to an opinion without even seeing if they have a player
stick with what works lol, throw a new server out like a chicken to the wolves an u done.. (twice a yr - and post more on tiktok)
kk i'm done lol, like what 25 edits later
oh an schedule more GM's to visit! - there ya happy no what .. wait who r u talking to
tested on the test server all works fine not sure what you are all complaining about?
That's not what I did at all. Not even remotely. I made no such implications.
My concise original post was contrasting how modern game devs don't play the games that they are developing, whereas the EQ devs were always playing EQ in their free time.
You made a mistake in thinking that my post implied something that it clearly did not.
You are the one that replied to add a whole bunch of negative commentary about the team being overworked, having substance abuse problems and dealing with depression. That wasn't me.
Separate names with a comma.