Oakwynd Feedback

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by coltongrundy, Mar 18, 2023.

  1. Larsen Augur

    No, that post is just as disingenuous and nonsensical as Waring's, just worded differently.

    1) Stop assigning viewpoints to people in order to discredit them. You have not sat here and cross-referenced posters' opinions in order to determine that "the same people" have proclaimed A and B. For my part, I didn't play on Mischief and all and have no interest whatsoever in that ruleset. That's most likely the case for a number of other opponents of Encounter Locking as well. This is a common dishonest forum B.S. tactic: "oh the people who said A, which I didn't like, are probably also the ones saying B, therefore B must be wrong."

    2) The Mischief ruleset was not rife with potential for huge, gamewide problems that would ruin the server. By and large, it's a ruleset that gives something to players without taking anything away from them. It was not some intrusive mechanic that opened the door for griefing and other problems. It was simply a different system of gear progression. In no conceivable way can it be compared to Encounter Locking. People are not generally against any and every idea that isn't classic. They're against bad ideas.

    3) No rules are being changed here. The fact that the game's rules have changed in the past does not automatically make any and all mechanical changes positive. That argument doesn't even make sense. So because they once changed from the PNP to hands-off FFA, it isn't possible for there to ever be anything wrong with any feature they ever implement? That's so absurd that it almost has to constitute intentional trolling. So players are not allowed to disagree with any change they ever make because... the developers once changed the PNP rules? What?!

    4) While trains are not a well-liked part of the Everquest experience, it very much is a part of it and always has been. It's part of what sets good and bad players apart. It's part of how players discover who's someone they want to play with and who's not. It's part of dividing content up into camps so that groups don't pull across each other constantly. It's part of the challenge in many pieces of high-end content. Most importantly, it's not some kind of faulty feature that needs to be removed from the game, and certainly not with a cure that's worse than the disease. And lastly, in order for Encounter Locking to do anything about trains in the first place, it has to work exactly the way that creates the most problems: locking instantly upon first aggro, opening the floodgates for a KSing epidemic.
  2. Trox2010 Augur

    If it is based off of damage that will at least take away wizards with Staff of Temporal Flux being able to tag everything instantly. I don't think there is really anything out there that tags faster than that; maybe taunt.
  3. 6BoxerOnCoirnav Lorekeeper

    DPG: "We have heard the feedback that some players and classes are at a disadvantage when competing for named spawns, so we are introducing a new core feature to ensure that only certain classes can effectively compete for named spawns. Have fun!"
    Larsen and Thatoneguy666 like this.
  4. Mithra Augur

    Everyone has autoattack, just stand on top of spawn point if you really want to tag first.
  5. ForumBoss Augur

    I enjoy watching bobby, and I'm sure streams of the griefing, bugs and exploits that come with early FTE implementation could be entertaining.

    That being said, I tend to play eq on a much more regular basis, and the rules creeping onto other servers would have a huge impact to how the game operates.
  6. Larsen Augur

    And then we saddle all players with the burden of forever having to cluster on top of named mobs spawn points, spamming a target+attack macro made in advance, because that'll be the new way to play the game. I'm still looking for reasons why this feature isn't worse than just... not having it in the first place. It's like treating the flu with chemo.
    Thatoneguy666 likes this.
  7. ForumBoss Augur

    Everyone afaik gets taunt, disarm, beg, throw stone, or something that can be done instantly. The issue is those with lower pings or faster autoclickers will be the ones that win. I'm pretty sure this will mainly be an issue at contested nameds or epic bottlenecks, probably not for the typical xp mob, at least post the leveling rushes early in.
  8. 6BoxerOnCoirnav Lorekeeper

    Wow sounds like a fun game! Permanent solo and duos sitting in your group for protection and only moving when the timer says its time to ks race. Going to be fun when groups get to watch their named get tagged and slowly killed over time at a safe pace, also reducing how many chances per hour a named spawns. Same as they tag placeholders and keep them alive for 30 minutes at a time til your group finally moves picks to start over again
    ForumBoss likes this.
  9. Risiko Augur

    I'm not sure I would compare the /Pick and Advanced Loot systems to the FTE system.

    The /Pick and Advance Loot systems did not change the core game play of EverQuest. They changed the availability of content and how you interact with the rewards of the content. They did not change the gameplay though.

    FTE is going to change the core gameplay of EverQuest. I say core because agro creation and management is one of the key elements of the game's combat systems. FTE takes that element of the gameplay completely out, and that is one of the absolute core features of EverQuest.

    FD pulling, Mez pulling, Memory blur, etc are all non existent when you change the game for FTE.

    On top of that, FTE makes social interaction between people in the same area irrelevant. No longer can a stranger see someone in trouble, and help them. This is something that has been at the core of the gameplay for EverQuest throughout it's entirety. That social interaction usually lead to making new friends in game.

    When you put FTE in to the game, you are basically making the game a single group game where you see other groups in the game, but they are basically not really part of your world. The social interaction that so many people have talked about in EverQuest for decades is gone greatly diminished when you add FTE to the game.

    Can it work? Yes.
    Has it worked for other games? Yes.
    Will it work for EverQuest? For the long term, probably not.

    EverQuest does not offer a lot to the industry beyond it's core game mechanics that have largely been left alone for over 20 years.
    • The graphics are pretty bad for today's standards (hell for yesterday's standards as well)
    • Visual character customization is very limited
    • Stats are bloated to hell and back
    • In the modern game, there are more spells, abilities, AAs, clickies than you have hot bars to put them all, and even if you could fit them all, the jumbled mess of buttons to click is unwieldy at best
    • Modern content pretty much dictates that you either have a ready made group of friends or box your own group
    • Compared to the rest of the industry, it takes significantly longer to level, get advanced leveling (AAs in the case of EverQuest), and gear a character out for current era content
    • etc...
    The point is, EverQuest doesn't have a lot of merits to pull players to it. If you start chipping away at the very core of what makes the game special among the other games in the industry, it wont be long until there is no reason for anyone to ever play the game again.

    Now... will some people like this server rule set? You bet there are. The farmers are going to have a field day with this server and lock down every single valuable spawn in the game. There will be no more racing farmers for named spawn content. They will use *stuff* to instant agro the named mobs before they even render on your screen.

    So, yeah the farmers are going to make bank on this server, and I'd be willing to bet that some of the small number of people on these forums that are for FTE are in fact the same people that will be selling the rest of you all your gear on the server. You better go stock up on Krono because you're going to need it on this server to get anything.

    But hey... who am I to know anything right?... I've only been on these forums for decades trying to help people understand what is good and bad. You should totally believe the forum accounts pushing for FTE that were created less than a month ago and have put in the majority of their forums posts IN the thread talking about the new TLP server. I'm sure they created their forum accounts with the best of intentions.

    Yall have fun with this server... The forums are going to be lit, and I intend to enjoy reading it all. LOL
  10. 6BoxerOnCoirnav Lorekeeper

    Except they dont. Great take from someone who has 0 clue what they are spouting
    Familycat23 and Animosity like this.
  11. Trox2010 Augur

    Auto Attack has a chance to miss; Temporal Flux doesn't since even if it is resisted it still aggros.
  12. magikarp Elder

    player mindset as described here is the biggest risk in my mind. irregardless of any further details or faq, FTE in its core principle incentivizes individuals to engage as fast as possible. some groups will die from this along the way, but the worst of it will happen on raids, where anyone who cares about OW will now have to deal with it forever as long as this system exists. if even one opposing guild member is in the zone, sorry, no prep for you. mobs here now

    i’m ready to bite it and do the paid beta test in place of this year’s tlp, which i was and still am looking forward to enjoying, in whatever way i can. i just hope that if, in the event it proves to be an even more toxic, poopsock encouraging, exploit-laden system than most damage done was, which no one was complaining about…i simply hope they dont try to force it on every future server

    it all just feels like a forced culture change with the least effort possible
    MasterMagnus and Thatoneguy666 like this.
  13. Triconx Augur

    I don't have to cross reference everyone, but it's quite easy to highlight individuals who are rampantly posting on here while spewing pro-Mischief propaganda. A couple of them already liked your bad take post. To claim otherwise is being disingenuous.
    Uhhh yes it was and yes they were taken advantage of. Easy, quick spawning encounters providing top-tier loot were nigh exploited to the point where they needed to be patched by devs. This creates inflation and other economy-ruining tactics.

    Let's also not forget that just conveniently when a FT-based TLP released suddenly a plat dupe was brought into the game. Kind of strange how that suddenly occurred right in the middle of a TLP ruleset most beneficial for that exploit. Peculiar, you might say.

    Wake up and smell the coffee because you clearly aren't in reality right now.
    According to many, the fundamental qualities of what make "EQ" are being changed. I'm not saying actual EULA or company-broadcasted rules, but the unwritten rules of EQ, similar to the unwritten rules of baseball that boomers quote all the time.

    And where did I ever once mention there isn't anything wrong with FTE? I'm pointing out the obvious cognitive dissonance carpet-bombed in this ever growing thread. People are crying out about how this changes aspects of EQ but this aspect has already changed multiple times. They are just complaining about change because it's diverging from status quo, not bringing any valid reasons why this is good or bad.

    Present facts on why this change is bad and stop spewing senseless garbage. Why is this ruleset any better or worse than the awfully toxic man-child behavior found on early era TLPs? That, in my eyes, has yet to be determined because early era TLPs are almost unbearably toxic compared to post-POP TLPs and live gameplay.
    Strawman argument, at best. Good and bad? People train on purpose. Doesn't make them bad players, just makes them toxic players.

    This will still be able to be accomplished, just in a different manner. Again, complaining about change with no actual reason to complain other than it's change.
    Camps don't exist and anyone who played in early era TLPs know that the toxicity of no such thing as camps rule breeds a ton of toxicity already. People who respect camps will respect camps regardless of FTE or not. Those that don't already will continue to do so. Fundamentally, no change at all so far.
    No, it's not. I'm questioning what high-end content you believe training involves.
    As if that epidemic doesn't already exist. You finished off the refute with a bang of a strawman.
    Vindar likes this.
  14. Larsen Augur

    It doesn't, though. It happens once in a while, but really not very often. Certainly nowhere near as often as it will if they make it so that literally anyone can effortlessly KS anybody by just getting the first tag, as opposed to having to deal the most damage.

    P.S: you evidently have no idea what a strawman argument even is, it's just some word you throw out whenever someone disagrees with you. You're just not as intelligent as you think you are.
    Trident and MasterMagnus like this.
  15. Doze Augur

    Sabra likes this.
  16. Triconx Augur

    This is nothing but conjecture created by pure speculation.

    Are you seriously gaslighting me? Just the top of my head just ask anyone how fun Cazel, Broken Golem, Wraith, Begurgle, etc are. What about VP keying? Heck even my war 2.0 fight in EW was highly contested.

    Strawman: Refuting with argument that is different than the one being discussed. We were talking about training and FTEs and your argument against FTE and training talks about KSing. How doesn't KSing relate to training discussion? It doesn't. That's textbook strawman.

    If you want to talk about KSing well, it can't be any better or worse than it already is on early era TLPs. I refuse to ever join a TLP prior to POP now after experiencing one firsthand.
  17. Vindar Augur

    DPS racing just gives you the illusion of some sense of security. Reality is, the type of people who engage in that behavior are going to be optimized to do it regardless. For most people, they're sticking to their camps and doing their thing. I mean if you really prefer the early eras of EQ, this is just something you have to accept that will happen.
  18. 6BoxerOnCoirnav Lorekeeper

    Its a barrier to entry, actually. The cost of being able to out dps someone takes effort and characters. Now, it will be anyone who can solo the mob slowly and eventually kill it without being disturbed by anyone. Now, instead of rolling as a pack, a box group can spread out and contest much more. It will get old very quickly.
    ForumBoss likes this.
  19. Triconx Augur

    No, it won't. In-group or in-raid aggro management will still exist. We don't even know the extent of how they will exist outside of group because it's literally not been implemented yet. We can speculate based on the information given, but that's the extent.

    No, they won't. They will still be a thing. FTE doesn't effect any of this.

    Regardless, pulling mechanics are such a short-lived thing in EQ. The core gameplay of pulling has been dead for decades. Your statement is such a hyperbole. You don't need FD pulling or mezz pulling outside maybe Velious. After that just pull groups of mobs and go to town. Anyone who actually leverages the role of pulling in their gameplay beyond POP as the absolute latest needs to rethink how they play because it's bad.

    Considering a majority of valuable content in EQ becomes instanced I think it's safe to say this "core" mechanic has already been seriously deteriorated. In my selfish mentality, I'm more than happy with less social interaction. I couldn't care less about a bunch of randoms. The last time I saw anyone help a stranger out in trouble was...I don't even know. DPS racing is 100x more common situation vs a random helps someone.

    Thank god, leave me alone.

    Anyways, instances diminished this social interaction already to the point where it barely exists outside the first couple months of a TLP. And pick zones and AOCs further diminished social interaction. People are seriously exaggerating this point. I don't see widespread hate with DZs, picks, AOCs, intanced tasks, etc. Why is this suddenly an issue now? If we are going to be concerned with social interaction, why is the concern hyper-selective?
    Vindar likes this.
  20. Triconx Augur

    Not in the first few expansions when the game is so imbalanced that a single click of ebolt wins any race because of the mechanics on how dot damage is calculated. There is simply no situation where a classic rogue/war will ever outdps any caster one-to-one, regardless of skill and effort. I could yawn, doze off for a few seconds, wake up, hit a mob with ebolt and take the mob away from a person facerolling their keyboard on a rogue.

    DPS racing is an illusion created to help people cope about the awful class balance and game mechanics that exist.