Oakwynd Feedback

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by coltongrundy, Mar 18, 2023.

  1. Crabman Augur

    if only there was a server to test things. i think they have one, i just cant quite remember what its called
    Grimaldus likes this.
  2. Zansobar Augur

    I don't think you actually read the details about the mechanic itemized in the producer's letter, because that is exactly what people are explaining will be a huge problem.

    No more helping others that have an overpull.

    No way to stop anyone from taking mobs from your camp if they have an instant cast and you don't or if they exploit tagging mobs before they are visible in the game world while you do not.

    Lots of exploits are enabled with this mechanic - too many to list.
    Crabman likes this.
  3. Demetri Augur

    It really doesn't - just some vague concepts.
    Zrender likes this.
  4. Trident Elder

    They made absolutely no mention of how healing would play out in the producer's letter, so not sure what you are referencing in regards to what I said. And I'm fully aware of the other issues.

    I was pointing out that all of the many flaws that have been mentioned have had absolutely zero legit ideas from posters backing this mechanic on how they could actually be implemented without severely screwing other aspects of the game at the same time.
  5. Crabman Augur

    k well its a "vague concept" that it seems about 7 people in 69 pages worth of a forum post think is a good idea.
    That said, I said this in discord earlier when someone talked about gm support... IF (IF) III FFF, this is a well thought out fte with tweaks to stop programs and limit griefing, AND there is active gm support watching for griefing and looking for new methods to fix exploits, then i think fte could work.
    but their track record of things implemented in the past tell me that this wont get the attention it needs, and toxicity will be at an all time high
  6. Magician9001 Augur

    This is why nobody should take you seriously. None of those servers were flops they all made DPG a lot of money and had 1000s of players on them.

    Not really.

    Engage.(Damage or Agro?)
    Short time.(How long? How does it work with FD, Fade, Memblur ect)

    It's also unclear if people that aren't locked to the mob can even generate agro. Many features added for TLPs like Pick Zones and MoTM got tweaked/Changed after being added no reason FTE can't/won't be the same.
    Zrender and Demetri like this.
  7. Trident Elder

    Doubt aggro matters in a competitive situation as chances are damage will be done before an npc will aggro on it's own.

    Resets after 15 seconds while FD.

    Assuming anything that truly drops mobs of xtar will result in a reset, but that's conjecture on my part.
  8. Crabman Augur

    They did get changed but so much later than problems were initially brought up to devs... if there is greifing going on for epic camps its likely things wont get changed til pop... people locking raid mobs in velious, mayyybe they fix it by omens.

    And also, the definition of engage wont change what griefing will occur nor does the definition of short time, they will just make the third party users adapt their programs. anything a human can do a program can do faster. if i only need to agro, they will agro quicker, if i do need to do damage, they will beat me to that too... that is what i am worried about
  9. Pixnmode Journeyman

    Biggest issue with this server is FTE mechanics due to griefing/exploiting potential. You would eliminate over half the whining/crying if you'd get rid of it. There's a reason only 2 guilds are posting recruitments for it. Even vaniki had more people interested in it than this heap.
  10. Demetri Augur

    And we live in a day and age where internet culture (like the forums are) are profoundly hyperbolic and make wild, random predictions based on limited information, often completely out of ignorance using "Underpants Gnomes" logic.

    Perhaps you're not from the US and generally isolate yourself from how the majority over here react to things in recent memory, but that is par for the course these days.

    And fixes to exploits and such have been quite common for many of the servers except the direct Phinny clones that had MOST things fixed before they existed. (With even a few "fixes" since then, like the keying changes) Vaniki also saw a TON of tweaking.
    demilich and Zrender like this.
  11. uberkingkong Augur

    Thought TLPs the dev's need to know if there is any interest first.
    Was there a dev request for people to show up to test server to show their interest in this Oakwynd kind of TLP????

    Wheres the interest, wheres the data, wheres the analysis that this was a good idea? Who came up with this, where is the support showing that Oakwynd is a good idea????

    Show yourself, explain your reasoning. Link me the posts/requests/discussion that show information about this idea before it was announced that this is the TLP of 2023?

    I want to know from dev's conclusion and analysis or their think tanker who came up with this. I want to hear their side of the story, how they came up with this.

    Was their interest or was this someone's idea, and viola. Upper management is upper management, and they want this, henceforce this is it.

    How did we come to this kind of TLP conclusion?

    I been saying other threads on TLP.
    You have polls, voting, for reason in game. Utilize the tools you already have at your disposal.
    Wheres the twitter, facebook, discord, etc. where is the interest/ data/whatever to support this Oakwynd TLP???
  12. Crabman Augur

    And both the guilds that have already said they will be on the new server have their fingers crossed that FTE goes away.
    Yinla and Pixnmode like this.
  13. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    They already know what the interest is in a PvP server as they have existing PvP servers and know that they are low population servers that are not already popular.

    You can't compare them trying an new idea to PvP servers that we already have examples showing that people don't want them.
  14. Thatoneguy666 Elder

    Long post so most people probably skipped it. I did not. And I have to agree, the thing that is the most concerning isn't even the idea itself, which is objectively bad, but that in order to come up with that idea and truly think this will be a positive for the TLP experience requires such an incredible dearth of experience, such a total lack of understanding of how the game is played, that is calls into question the entire development process.

    If you were to simply gather up maybe 20-30 of the top TLP players, even a lot of people I absolutely loathe, and talk with them about what would make this a better experience you would come up with such drastically different ideas than this encounter locking system. Better ideas. Maybe I wouldn't agree with all of them. Maybe I'd have my own opinions.

    But not one serious, competent guild leader, raid leader, would ever suggest this nonsense. There is so much low-hanging fruit in the current TLP paradigm that would be a wonderful place to start if you wanted to actually make it a better experience for your players.

    How about 5 months in PoP? Just terrible and everyone knows it. This is as close to a consensus as you'll get on a topic.

    How about 9 months stuck at level 70, farming items for 5% and 10% upgrades over OOW gear? Again, absolutely needs changed, and there is very nearly a consensus here among experienced players.

    Maybe consider a significant change to autogrant AAs. Isn't farming 1 or 2 expansions worth of AAs enough of a grind to catch up? Currently the autogrant system is anemic and this is why power leveling is so prevalent because the game as currently designed NEEDS IT TO SURVIVE.

    If you want to kill PL, maybe make it easier to catch up as opposed to implementing a system which will assuredly break more things than it fixes, and without question make for more toxicity and more grief than the current DPS race system.

    None of this has been thought through in a logical and coherent manner. It's being implemented as far as I can tell because it's progressive and 'innovative' and certain people think it will be more equitable. But that is simply misguided. You will create an even smaller class of 'haves' when it comes to named competition, and a much bigger class of have nots. It's basically expanding the wealth gap in Everquest terms.

    Please do better. Please listen to the players who have been there, done that, a million times, and understand the in's and out's of the game better than the people writing the code. Not all of us are hyperbolic overreacting droolers. We just want to protect something we love. And this is as close as I've ever seen in 22 years of playing, to something that is going to really kill the spirit of what makes EQ great.
    Ruiner likes this.
  15. uberkingkong Augur

    Whats wrong with a new PvP idea then?

    They know Rallos Zek PvP is not good idea.

    How about a different PvP server idea then Rallos Zek?
    9000+ pages.
    There was more interest in a new PvP idea then there was with Oakwynd idea that...

    Still waiting to hear back on how they came up with this,
    what data did they use
    what analysis design was in place
    where did they reach to conduct data and so on on how they came up with Oakwynd and its finalized.

    2 months waiting.... Could have asked, could have did a poll could have get some integrity on the data they used to come with this, nope.

    They just finalize it and thats that.

    My request is that this TLP process needs to be more AGILE.
    Right now its waterfall.
    They do 1 thing, at a time, slow, not effective. They want info they just get it during that period, ignore every other period. PvP info they noticing, only have eyes 2 3 years ago, any other info come up since, they not AGILE, they not watching. slow clunky method.

    Be more AGILE
    CONSTANT CHANGE, people really want PvP but they want a good PvP, some thought in it, lets change, this Oakwynd is no good, data is falling, data is not there, but pvp its there its climbing

    was the data collected, was the decision made, CUSTOMER FOCUSED? Something your customers have been craving?

    Let us take a look at the process, particularly the data, vision, that came up with the Oakwynd TLP ruleset. Doesn't need can be bullet points of why you do this.
  16. WeCameWeConquered Elder

    I don't think it is fair to say they know much of anything about the interest of the player base. Recap:

    Aradune had to be changed
    Mangler / Selos had to inverted / changed
    "You don't want free trade" yet Mischief is the most popular TLP to date
    Vaniki ghost town
    Oakwynd catastrophe

    And that's just off the top of my head. If anything, DPG's ideas of what the players want / what would be successful have been 180 degrees out of tune more often than not.
    Thatoneguy666 likes this.
  17. Demetri Augur

    One of the people on the "wait and see" side of the equation in this thread led a top guild from cradle to grave of a previous TLP, FYI.
    Zrender and liveitup1216 like this.
  18. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    PvP isn't a new idea and they have data showing the popularity of the existing PvP servers. You can't compare them trying a new idea in Everquest to something that has already been done and shut down for a lack of popularity.
    Zrender likes this.
  19. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Mischief wasn't created as a free trade server it was created as a random loot server with free trade as an addon. Also they never claimed that free trade would not be popular as they have proof that it is based on the FV server. The only thing they said is some of the things that come with free trade would be things that players wouldn't like.
  20. uberkingkong Augur

    Thats your ignorance.

    PvP is not a new idea.
    So ignorant

    PvP means Player vs Player, theres many ways you can go about PvP. So many ideas.
    not a new idea. smh
    Tell PvP is not a new idea to people that played
    and now forced to play on Rallos
    Tallon would they rather play Sullon or Rallos?
    Sullon would they rather play Tallon or Rallos?
    Vallon which would they not want to play on?
    Why is no one picking but Rallos? It's totally different idea which they don't like is why.

    There's way more than those 3 ideas of PvP.

    Other games are doing it, tons of people of playing it. Good idea PvP they go play those games when other games like EQ. shut down and force people to play on some idea that is not mainstream and fun.

    Just like how games, GW2.
    People NEVER play sPvP
    PvP 80v80v80, aka WvW, they play that.

    I don't wanna hear
    I have so many PvP ideas, its just which one works best with EQ
    Rallos isn't it.
    Runescape Wilderness, skull system
    GW2 WvW
    ESO AvA
    GW2 sPvP
    GW2 hotjoins
    WoW battlegrounds
    GW1 faction wars

    instead of loot lockout, could be doing PvP zone OOT, sol b, lower guk.

    Back to AGILE
    Changing those zones on the fly thats AGILE


    we are the customers, you want us to have fun, or are you just throwing your agenda on us and we are forced to be accepting?

    Vaniki ruleset.
    CBQ unkillable everyone says.
    If you was AGILE you could quickly respond to the customer, quickly make changes. Quickly keep the playerbase happy.
    Say level increase happening too soon.
    AGILE do something about.

    Oakwynd, not very well received.
    If you was AGILE, could do something.