Play naked or just with your breast plate on. Not only does it make it interesting but makes you more sexy. Or get a set of group gear for group content and leave your raid suit at home for inferior encounters.
At least it looks like they will implement increases to finishing blow. For myself as a group warrior the decision to stick with the nttb change is disappointing. That it is of no real value on raids due to the stacking issues, with no foreseeable changes makes me wonder. Whoever said the tanking disparity never gets acknowledged is on point. I have spent hundreds of hours playing my warrior and will continue to, but I was tempted to start a Mage in order to have a more powerful tank for my 3 box. When I returned 6 months ago I used to group, but was never asked to go toe to toe with mobs, I was always behind a SK, Paladin, pet, or tank merc. I decided not to group with healers who preferred their merc when a knight was not available and have turned to boxing to acquire aa. I dont want healing abilities for my beloved warrior, but I wish for group parity. I started playing in Kunark, we should have HP and Mitigation superiority. The warrior class description does not pertain to the warrior of today.If NTTB needed to be nerfed then how on earth were Mage and Necro pets left as is? I really do not understand how the dev's make these decisions.
thye are going to leave warriors how they are and soon there will be no warriors just like you see almost no rogs anymore or people playing clerics as mains from merc cleric
Clearly Triconix bought into the argument made by a few players who wanted Warriors to be boxed into permanent inferiority which became more apparent during LDoN - Warriors have better survivability/knights have better aggro they said. Can't have Warriors get at-will at-range aggro that's knight stuff. You want that roll a knight. Of course they missed the part about Warriors being able to keep opponents focused on them and frailer players safe from harm There was no survivability "or" aggro in our class description. Any tank class that can aggro or survive is not a whole tank. You have to be able to do both. Tanking = aggro + survivability, So much for the "roll a knight" argument. Aggro and survivability are both part of the Tank Archetype. Being observant, knights noted some overtuned hard hitting mobs exceeded their survivability, Hmmm survivability = permanent mitigation and avoidance + burst mitigation/avoidance + combat self healing. Welp, they healed more than Warriors so increasing healing wasn't the answer.... Hmmm it looks like burst mitigation/avoidance is part of the Tank Archetype too. "Roll a Warrior" certainly was not an acceptable answer - not to knights and not to developers. Aye it would in fact be nice if SOE did the right and obvious thing. It's not increase Warrior max HP's - that only makes the container larger - your HP's seek a level in response to damage and healing. (Physics 101 - oscillating systems, equilibrium, and catastrophe theory). Warriors don't run out of container and their leak stop kit is #1 - they run out of HP's in the container and, try as they might, the only part tank in the archetype can't do much of anything about that. It's not increase Warrior mitigation. We already have better mitigation than knights. Aye it would in fact be nice if SOE did the right and obvious thing. You shouldn't have to roll a knight for aggro, roll a Warrior for burst mitigation, or roll a knight for combat self healing. Now healing and curing others or FD pullinig - those are clearly outside of the Tank Archetype. If you want those things and you want to tank then yes, you should have to roll a Paladin or an SK.
You act as if you defused his statement "roll a knight"... you only reinforce it with the following Each class has their own way of survivability. You want to water it down by giving each tank classes abilities to each other. You say tank archtype. Self healing/healing has nothing to do with Tank archtype it has to do with the Sk and Paly other hybrid parent class Cleric and Necro. Do you even listen to yourself talk? You are clearly the book smart kinda guy NTTB actually made us better tanks in the group game....Devs took care of that NTTB prenerf = survivability
I did thoroughly refute the "roll a knight" silliness. Each class does not have it's own unique way of surviving. "Connor, many of the things knights are asking for are Warrior specific...." was thrown overboard within days of being posted. Knights got a burst defensive ability and they have gotten several other defensive abilities since then. HP regen, ooc regen, Warlord's Tenacity... We have HP affecting abilities. It's Warriorly. SK - nerco methods of aggroing and recovering from wounds. Paladin - clerical methods of aggroing and recovering from wounds. Warriors - bellowing like a bazu, mocking the opponent, ... and enjoying a remarkable physiques with unheard of stamina which should (but doesn't) translate into rapid recovery from wounds taken. Each class a different route to capabilities ensconced (<- book smart) within the Tank Archetype. NTtB did nothing to alleviate knight swarming advantage. SOE had to take other steps. You didn't notice???? NTtB does nothing about a distracted or heaven forfend a lagging or going LD Cleric. Knight says, "I got this." Warrior says, "Ready res." You didn't know this? The whole mess reminds me of knight soloing advantages that I first posted about during PoTime, knight tradeskill farming and factioning advantages through swarming that I first posted about during Anguish. A person would have to be extremely unobservant not to see these things daily for 10+ years and to not know HOW these advantages existed. (Heck Shiftee, a Paladin, explained in great detail where and why combat self-healing conferred advantage. Frodlin popularized the "downward scaling" phrase....10 years ago. There's absolutely no mystery about this at all.) But all we ever got was soloing doesn't matter, swarming is killing trivial mobs (for non-trivial benefits). Doesn't count. Doesn't count. Well all that stuff did count and the pretzel bending done not to do the right thing is unbelievable. NTtB was an effort to please a faction in the Warrior class that refuses to see a Warriorly route to common ends. They wanted something that would allow raid Warriors to tank 10 blues and too bad for group Warriors who after NTtB remained the #3 choice of the 3 classes that tank. It was a pretty bad exhibition of self-interest.
Hey BB, back in GoD warriors were needed, and that was without self healing. Most warriors do not like the idea of self healing, if a cleric goes LD should not be a factor as it is not in the normal course of events.
Hey, Imableeder, back in GoD knights were not wanted and that was because of a lack of burst mitigation. Did they get bigger heals or were Warrior class defining abilities shared? Many people think the Moon landing was faked - does the weight of their numbers make fiction into fact? Clerics are distracted, lag, they mistime, fall behind, exercise triage poorly. The fact is Warriors die because Clerics fail to keep them alive (biggest reason). Knights die because both Clerics and the knight tank fail in their joint responsibility to put HP's back into the container. One tank class the helpless mana sponge (we can tighten the tourniquet just before passing out from blood loss but that's it) and two tanks able to assist the doctor (and thus assisting themselves) in recovering from ALL forms of damage taken. It's why knights outsoloed Warriors. It's why knights swarmed more trivial mobs for tradeskill drops, fast exp, and faction. It's why knights don't need to die to a modest DoTs, It's why they can often survive their healer dying. It's why they survive better clearing. It's why they outperform Warriors in group content. All together now: Just like aggro and Warrior class defining defensive abilities... the ability to put HP's back in your HP bar at pressing need is part of the Tank Archetype SK - nerco methods of recovering from wounds. Paladin - clerical methods of recovering from wounds. Warriors - remarkable physiques with unheard of stamina which should (but doesn't) translate into rapid recovery from wounds taken. Or we can watch the avoiders of clear and obvious truth tie themselves into pretzels and deliver the didn't do a lot of the job in the first place and baaroken in the second place baaaaaaaaaaaad abilites. Hey, I too am geared quite nicely - I just hate to see the Warrior class thrown under the bus by people wanting to DW group content like gods (raise our mitigation kplsthnx) while non-raid Warriors were, are, and will be the #3 choice in group content. Note that SK's were worried about Paladins becoming better than they were (and it wasn't superior Paladin mitigation that had them sweating - it was self-healing). They were not at all worried about Warriors. Dumb mana sponges that can't even outpace a weak DoT or handle 25 light blue mobs are no threat.
I have a two part question/comment: One, as I've said in previous posts, in the early days of the game, warriors tanked a lot better then knights, but knights had spells to compensate. Then over the years, and especially in the last few years, they (game designers) wanted all "tanks" to be able to tank all content raid or group, so they made knights able to tank nearly as well as warriors, while retaining all the spell abilities. That made knights a lot more desirable then warriors and you could see that in guild line ups and rosters, and read it in many posts. From what I can read, even now this is recognized, and developers intend to address it, but, with an extended period of time and they can't even fix basic stacking issues with common spells, it's hard to feel like they will have it sorted out in any meaningful way anytime soon. Hence, if you don't like it go roll a knight, the common advice for people who are disappointed in how warriors have not been kept competitive. Also, a lot of the warrior class earlier advantage was reflected in having there own item sets, with more hp/ac then knight sets of armor. Now with the all/all armor.. anyhow- for my main question. What is the current stacking issues with nttb, for example I understand it was never meant to block detrimental auras but it was meant to block spell dmg in general, is it doing that how it is supposed to, and what is the current stacking with any other buff line ups, such as cleric shining bastion/vie type spells. My core point being one, nttb alone, nerfed or not, does not address all the disproportions between knights and warriors. But, for the three out of five minutes that i'm currently able to have it casted, is it always useful, or in some situations is it doing nothing, or more harm then good. Since I previously chain casted it, knowing it was always useful, if it is to be used only in certain situations now, I need to understand when I should be using it.
Our mitigation isn't going to give us any meaningful hard group content preference ever again. There's no point in pining for Warriors are advantaged vs. hard content/knights advantaged vs. easier content. Where does giving us baaaroken and ineffective NTtB instead of the fair and obvious fix leave us? Well with a Merc cleric you just use NTtB. There isn't a meaningful conflict. In raid content it's either use everything at once and understand you are going to die when Final Stand runs out (107K hitters) or use your secondary assets (NTtB, Guardian Circle, etc.) after FS runs out. Yeah - we've a window of vulnerability but then before NTtB there was an even bigger window of vulnerability. A partially broken and wrong fix is still better than none.
I'm not good at reading all the spdat info, or raw spell data. I see a lot of posts here outlining stacking issues with various slots like 161, 162, 163 etc. I'm not sure if since the changes are fairly new how much raid parsing has been done using nttb compared to not in all situations. Possibly some of this has already been fixed or will be soon? In the mean time I was looking for any suggestions on when to use or not to use nttb. I've heard various theories, for example if mob hits for X amount, say 90k, your better off not using nttb, and taking the % based mitigation of shining bastion, which you won't get if nttb is running, that would also allow you to save nttb for a situation where it would be more useful. Was just looking for any tips the more technical warriors may have found with regards to nttb. Also, assuming nttb is your best defense against ae spell dmg, you may wanna consider that on a given fight. I.E a purely melee non spell casting 100k hitting raid boss may not be the ideal time to use nttb? or maybe it is the best time to use it.
in esence in raid atm theres nothing a moment where nttb is better then buff from other. if you want better protection from melee dmg (if something hits u harder then 34100) go for cleric spells. i fyour takeing massive spell dmg (again over 34100) go for enchanter spell runes. in a raid only time nttb is good is for picking up adds where atention is not full on you alone as a tank. OR where they hit for small amounts then 34100 in witch case NTTB is better
IF a player was a "the glass is half full" person, then: It's [combat self-healing] why knights outsoloed Warriors. Addressed with Mercs. Warriors aren't equal but at least we are no longer almost entirely incapable. It's why knights swarmed more trivial mobs for tradeskill drops, fast exp, and faction. SK swarming has been reined in considerably. Paladins will continue being able to handle 25ish light blues at a time easily. It's why knights don't need to die to a modest DoTs, Remains unaddressed. We don't have personal meaningful spell mitigation, high HP regen, or even just heal pots that do more than 1/16th of a single mob hit. It's why they can often survive their healer dying. FD potions and Howl. 5th rate capability. It's why they survive better clearing. Yay, according to Repthor (see above) a use for NTtB. It's why they outperform Warriors in group content. Well, ignoring fast experience groups, NTtB is better in group content than in raid content. But we've always had better mitigation than knights. Mitigation is not our problem....at least not in group content. SOE could do something to NTtB short of the detrimental blocking which clearly had to go and what we've got now and call it fixed. Yes, we'd still have a window of vulnerability but before NTtB we had one. Yes, the versatility of combat self-healing would remain a serious knight tanking advantage. But that was in the cards the moment this approach to solving the issues was chosen. ^ thread has been won.
I appreciate your perspective BB but respectfully disagree. In GoD knights were given near warrior level of mitigation. The ability which distinguished warriors was given to knights; in 2014 knight abilities should not be given to warriors. The balance should be restored through our class description, unheard of stamina meant unmatched hit points, not the ability to heal hit points. If burst mitigation is too close to call I propose warrior get the passive ability to knock off Damage interval 18,19, and 20. Keep pets and knights where they are and let harder hitting mobs one again make warriors best at tanking the most brutal encounters.
Actually, this thread has been quite the failure. NTtB has been turned into a situational usage panic button (which we already have a bunch of) with severe stacking issues, instead of the sustainable damage reduction through grit and toughness as was its original implementation and original intent. We were never given a real reason for the nerf. We never got to speak to a Developer in here. The stacking issues still exist and will remain indefinitely, based on the one line of feedback from the open Developer discussion yesterday. We proposed reasons for why NTtB was working for us as a class. We proposed fixes to the ability. We asked questions about sustainability and other spell/AA design decisions. We talked about class direction, and what might fix the class if NTtB nerfs weren't changed. But it turns out we were just arguing amongst ourselves and directing questions at a wall. Over 20 pages of feedback, some of which was even constructive instead of just complaining, but we continue to be ignored. I don't know if I am more disappointed in Sony, or that I have invested so much time in playing a Warrior.
That's because its Aristo who ignores feedback and doesn't respond to PMs. You get what he wants just like every class does. I would comment more harsh but a mod would delete it.
I personally took it out of my defensive hotkey just recently because like Repthor said it makes you take more damage on almost every single raid. The only time I even click the button the last 2 weeks is when I have nothing else left to use. Avoidance BB that is how they can fix us . Higher mitigation would also help but having half our avoidance gone since last expansion is one of the reasons we die so easily. Dang wish I could dodge 1 out of them 3 107 k hits .
They also read a conversation between 3 of us warriors and as many developers as I could fit in the conversation. We took all the ideas we had minus Battleblades and pasted them into there. They are looking at ways of fixing us . I am not sure what will happen but we will see . Personally I hope it is by the next content release because that is my time limit before I move on. 12 years I have invested as a player 5 years as someone trying to help our class be back on the top of tanking where we should be but it just is not happening enough.
