Not cool.

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Derpyderp, Sep 17, 2016.

  1. Duhbeast Augur

    I think it is good design if we have to use excessive mana to keep up with the pure DPS classes. Beastlords do amazing things in the group game. We can molo any named, and molo through most of the tbm content excluding Anashti Sul. Every 10 mins our burns/survivals we can claw our way out of any sticky situation. We have awesome Utility, we can Tank for groups, and bring more dps than Tanks. What else do you want m8? :(
  2. strongbus Augur


    thanks to you and all others for the info. I know having the healers do their group corruption will cure the dt leaving the mana drain alone. so only those who get it lose mana.

    We going have to change the way we do this around. we normal have bout 40ish at raid and maybe `15 of those are true dps classes. the rest are healers/tanks/support(bards/ench) so it was better for us to have the pallies take the mana drain instead of the dps so we could keep killing mastro.
  3. Draig Journeyman

    Have you seen tank dps lately? That bit may not remain true forever ;). I won't disagree that we are ridiculously strong in the group game, but most if not all of that does not translate to the raid game. I'd prefer to be more than a mediocre dps, primarily buffbot in raids. Been there, done that, got bored and quit. There's nothing wrong with hybrids being able to do respectable dps in raids when their group game utility is pretty much non-existant there. That's something which SoE/Daybreak seems to have agreed with at some point in time, and nobody can dispute that point. All I want is for that to exist still, and have an interesting to play class while doing so. I don't think that's unreasonable at all and there are many ways to achieve that other than simply reverting this change.

    GoM procs nowhere near enough to reliably keep 3 DoTs rolling, so forget about maintaining them all mana-free. I'm having a hard time even keeping 1 rolling reliably. Getting 2 up is a lucky streak, and 3 is the stars and planets aligned in an unheard of fashion. The ugly thing about proc based skill usage it that the RNG will seldom be on your side. I wouldn't call it excessive mana use... more along the lines of insanely excessive. The sky isn't falling and we aren't going to be last place on parses with this single change. It does make the class more boring to me, and does indirectly nerf beastlord and ranger dps, which is two steps in the wrong direction IMHO. If they could keep our dps roughly where it is now (it's not like we are kings of dps atm...) which I am quite happy with, while adding more flavor to the class elsewhere I'm all for it. That simply isn't the case because we weren't even on their radar.
  4. Duhbeast Augur

    We can get in the top 10 when try-harding, but top 5 is a tough spot to make, and with berserkers, wizards, necro's, and rogues, (and currently rangers). I am ok with that, I don't believe we should make top 5 every parse. I think the mana issue will hurt Rangers worse than us, way worse.
  5. Draig Journeyman

    That's kind of my point right there. I don't know that top 10 would even be doable after this goes live unless its an extremely short fight.
  6. Zunnoab Augur

    On the Shadowknight front, the class is great at aggro and kiting. Yes, a powerful guild would not need to kite I know but they have left multiple avenues of victory for several of the events that can utilize kiting rather than simple brute force tanking (a fact I am grateful for, and will freak out over if suddenly they add a bunch of anti-kite mechanics nearly a year after release frankly).

    In particular it's pretty much impossible for my guild to keep up with the spam of powerful golem adds for the High Bokon fight. A series of misfortunes hit our active shadow knights when we learned the event so we had to restrict the kiting only to the final burn. It's start to burn down strategically timed after an add wave before he HP locks at 40% or we're toast. The dichotomic nerf and enchanter nerf will seriously injure our chances of keeping the event on farm, much less work on hammering the final event, but then again perhaps the fight is short enough for us to be okay. We'll see, I never ever take turnout numbers for granted and we've been blessed with amazing turnout this summer. One of our three wins was a minute before he'd have HP locked. The other two were within 15-20 seconds. Summers tend to bring a halt to progression and it's been the opposite for us this year.

    The game is quite different if you are not in a top guild. I've never left an active guild and as such I've never been in a top guild, but I imagine the ability to be very particular about class makeup and player ability makes it a totally different game. Mind you actually managing that kind of standard must be a nightmare and players not involved in top guild leadership owe that leadership a great deal of respect for keeping up with it without wearing down.

    So it's a matter of hoping enough show up, and being thankful when enough show up to temporarily bench the weaker players. Long term commitment is a factor beyond players' skill, so it's more complicated than the "git gud" more obnoxious people will suggest. It's even more complicated than that. I've seen absolutely terrible players be masters of paperwork in helping the guild function. I've seen excellent players be extremely slow to absorb strat information (It's a tad cute when someone excitedly offers information on something they noticed... that was gone over before the event started. I'd rather them speak up with observations than be afraid to though.) Mid tier guilds of course have very talented players too, and it's not a simple matter of them "carrying" the others (except in some extreme cases of poor player skill) because the top of the guild could not carry the event wins on their own even if the rest of the guild would have a very difficult time winning without the top skilled players. It is a symbiotic teamwork that is much more complex than the dismissive comments some make. So when you have such a team and strive to push them to improve, some you will never have much luck with and you'll just have to bench them. You don't just kick them because turnout is never guaranteed and every person there counts (except in extreme cases) and they are better than an empty raid slot.

    Currently aside from a few strong members out of town or on vacation my guild is moderately strong. I never, ever take that for granted. For a guild barely getting enough on, sometimes, to take down the hard events though? These nerfs have to be outright brutal. That is just plain wrong to do to them, and while my guild isn't quite that bad off right now I've been there before and I never take our current turn out for granted. I always try to remember to thank people for showing up in force. It is a luxury a mid or especially a low tier guild cannot count on every day, much less min/max what classes can participate.
  7. Derpyderp Journeyman

    My problem isn't with nerfs, i've played through pet nerfs, bloodlust nerfs, HHE nerfs, I've watched other melee get huge AoE buffs, single target buffs, several new discs on different timers and I still do my beastlord thing. My problem is for the last year we've been balanced around and DPS'd around ANOTHER classes ability (just like Aristo wanted it to be) and now we're going to get roflstomped below a warrior's sustained DPS because dicho is too good for other classes.

    I mean necro's have been #1 on any fight longer than a few minutes for over 10 years now, I don't really care about other classes, I just think they need to re-assess how they handle Adps.

    I'll play through this nerf too, it's just dumb.
  8. flash000 Augur

    what i seriously don't get is that everything was tuned related to tbm for the mana cost and regen of what was currently available.

    If they wanted to tune content and force us to buy spells in the next expansion the simple choice is make the new spells work in the new content and old ones wont make some kind of lore about it its a better fix and your not retrofitting and breaking the way old abilities worked together.

    i wish they would stop trying to keep nerf pushing us to buy the crappy next expansion to rebuy either aa or spells abilities we lost only to chase a carrot to rebuy them with the new expansion.
  9. Janakin Augur

    This game is too hard and should be made easier so more people play like WoW....;)
  10. Derpyderp Journeyman

    Obvious troll is obvious, hybrids are probably the hardest class in everquest. The issue we are discussing doesn't even involve our own playstyle what-so-ever, it involves another classes ability hindering our ability to even use all of our skills, read the post at least.
  11. Janakin Augur

    I read the entire thread and similar ones like it. I have read 1000s like this since 1999. Yes there are unpleasant consequences when tuning the game (nerf bat) but I would rather play a game that the devs are not catering as "easy mode" like WoW does.

    Like you said in your original post, you are going to adapt and continue to play and I think my first post summed up why.
  12. yosco Augur

    There are serious differences among re-tuning an ability, nerfing an ability, and making an ability completely worthless. Bards are the only class in EQ who use endurance that don't have Breather or another way to quickly regen it. This was by design.

    So, the only way to create parity in dicho abilities for all classes (isn't that why DBG "re-tuned" bard dicho?) is to remove Breather from the game. No more infinite endurance for all other classes and not bards, right? All would be well equal/well again!

    Can you see how this is a rabbit hole? We can keep going down and down and down it, which we've all experienced in the past, and no one is happy. Have you all seen the changes made to the song? They fixed a mistake (hey, I get it, no big deal), but then nerfed the ability ON TOP of fixing the reason it was giving so much mana. Right now unless the melee/spell boost is HUGE there won't be a reason to use it.
  13. Hellboy007 Augur

    Yep song is absolutely worthless now. That's all we need to know. No reason to even mem it. but im sure some bards will still use it cause they just don't get it..

    hell im sure people will still think OMG its such a ubar ADPS song regardless of it being <1kdps or in other terms <1% of a dps class.

    but whatever. good job at killing one of the only worth while songs a bard has. Hey if we drive enough bards off we can drop the class entirely. Not like it will be much of a loss as there is already superior ADPS classes for both melee and casters..
  14. Kutsuu Augur

    Bards don't have the Rest/Breather line of discs to recover endurance... so when they run out of endurance after ~10 uses of their Dicho spell, their group will almost certainly lose more total DPS and ADPS from the bard sitting for ooc regen (since you can't play songs that affect others while OOC regening or they'll pull you back into combat) than they initially gained from the Dicho casts. Since the mana return is now negligible (5-6% of what it was before) they won't cast it for that.
  15. Vdidar Augur

    I'm telling you if you just walk away it won't bother you one bit.
  16. Murphy Elder

    Brosefs on FV..dont quit.... i need for you to continue to farm the gear from the next expansion i need to buy to upgrade my overpowered and yet to be nerfed class.

    Obi Wan... u iz R only hope.
  17. dannyb0y1977 New Member

    I won't sink another dime into this game. I couldn't care any less about the new expansion or what it's going to bring. When a company like this makes ridiculous changes over and over again to a game that's already hurting it's really awful. I've watched my guild suffer with the changes to the melee classes and quickly found we couldn't beat enslaver, after which came a sharp drop in attendance, which lead to a drop in beating even the most basic raid content. Now a still suffering raid guild must deal with even more dps loss with the loss of the bard dicho. I really was enjoying this game but now I'm like all the other people who have felt the axe (which I'm not really surprised with, just deeply disappointed). I will completely remove this garbage song from my lineup. As far as getting this ability back in the next expansion, who the hell cares since the dev's can and probably will take it away just when it really starts to matter. Thanks so much..... for nothing Daybreak Dev's.
    Vrinda and Hellboy007 like this.
  18. Duhbeast Augur

    So your guild sucks and it's Daybreak's fault? Lul
  19. Derpyderp Journeyman


    You trolling every post is getting old, you're a sub-par player in an awful guild proud about making top 10, please stop when we are trying to have a real discussion.
    dannyb0y1977 likes this.
  20. Tx-Canyon New Member

    It's completely useless now.. the endurance and mana regen are not even registering.. looking at 1-2% restoration for 6% endurance use..

    Overall group dps reduced was about 25% looking briefly at parse. Guess DB wanted lower DPS... lets just kick bards in the groin and do it across the entire (melee) dps range...

    Hybrids are now having to over manage mana, and melee such as rogues and Zerks now go OOE and sit at 5-10% the rest of the fight.

    I get it.. back to pre-TBM we go..


    /facepalm
    dannyb0y1977 likes this.