Non-Raiding Necromancers

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by fransisco, Sep 28, 2013.

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  1. menown Augur

    Necros should not even compare to what mages and wizards do with their mana or mana regen. They are different classes and are played differently. The only thing that should be pulled from Forcallen's comparison is that wizard/mage class armor and augs prioritize mana, while the necros prioritize HP/survivability. Should the necro all of a sudden ask for more mana and less HP for their class armor. Should necros prioritize mana augs because of this change? I would still say 'no' because of how often we pull agro from pre dotting mobs for more dps in groups and how dot agro works. Also the whole concept of lich and eating ourselves for mana means we want more HP.

    I disagree with Dyseverfrostic's view of pick one or the other. Sorry but without mana our dots and swift dots do nothing in groups. Both Mage and Bst pets are tougher pets than ours too. We did not (pre-nerf) even have the highest mana regen but who cares, each class is played differently.

    I hope a Dev will come to his senses about this nerf and realize that it effects the group/solo game only and that this expansion was supposed to be group friendly.
  2. Forcallen Augur

    No its not, its not a 100% perfect picture but it sums up the point very well.

    Mana prez from tribute/gear/aa works the same for all mana, unlike some of the factors you mention which work different on nukes then dots. There are exceptions to this like PD and funeral pyre but those are choices the classes make for a boost in one regard for a penalty in another or like the necro group spells which ignore most effects totally. Again I have shown that relative to one another (once I factor in the few missed items that you and Voodo pointed out in regards to wiz and mage passive regen abilities) basically all three classes when in raids can sustain around 1,660+ mana regen before specials. With specials all jump up to at least 2K mana regen in raids, with wizards currently higher then even necros. The mana proc augs or specialization augs work the same for all, but 2% of 5K is a bigger benefit then 2% of 2K.

    The important ignored factors are that necros have always been the best or second best in combat mana regen in game. Which has basically gone away now. Lich benefit is all but gone via mages and wizards gaining more mana regen elsewhere that necros don't. And its been shown 5 different ways that Deathbloom is equivalent to what mages and wizards have received from burst mana clicks from AA/spells over the past 4 years. That in some cases work with forceful rejuvenation making them superior at times.

    The other major ignored facter, which is the one that really matters, is one type of damage can "dump" mana as fast as possible to improve burst and sustained. Mana pool and mana regen are the biggest controlling factors to this type of damage(since cast time, recast time and base damage are out of the players control) The other type of damage can't dump mana and only gains in sustained by not puttering out. Time is basically their limiting factor by design, they require it to ramp up and they require it to take over the lead, the benefit here since its not burst damage is higher sustainment.

    Necros are the only true sustained dps class left. The nature of our dps, the design of our AA, how everything we have requires ramp time to work most effectively. All of these factors make mana for us different then mana for nukes. We have always had higher in combat mana regen then anyone but shaman and have always had more efficient spells because we have to wait for our damage and we are supposed to go on longer then anyone else. That is no longer the case. Burst classes in some settings now can go on longer then us and due to this nerf now have higher in combat mana regen even with them not managing mana.
  3. Vivamort Augur

    You know, that the necro/shaman labeled non-visible stuff has the least amount of hp even after the +Hsta is added. We were given the Heroic stat importance we asked for, but we got shafted on why we wanted them... the more HPs. The Warrior labeled stuff is best in my book as it is the highest HP gain per item.
  4. Smallpox Augur

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    And still no resolution. Sad.
  5. Badname0553. Elder

    Supposedly a resolution is in the works for groupers. But as someone mentioned it yet agains divides up the classes toolbox into raid only or group only for basically no reason.
  6. Noirfu Augur

    It's been clear for years that SOE has a poor understanding of how necros are actually played. For example, way back when EQPlayers worked, the "Top 10" list for necros was sorted on mana pool. That's never been the key stat for necromancers.
  7. Iila Augur

    The resolution is to be ignored till you stop caring enough to post, or quit.
  8. Alasliasolonik New Member


    "I'm considering adding a group/non-raid centric version of the ability.

    Elidroth Renato
    Doug Cronkhite
    Asst. Lead Designer - Systems"

    Speaking of Death Bloom - Direct Quote
  9. Tinytinker Augur

    Some kind of resolution would be nice. I feel like a jerk turning away necros when I do Heroic Adventures, but time's money as they say, and the Station Cash exp pots are ticking during med breaks.
    Alasliasolonik likes this.
  10. --Voodoo-- Augur

    And you should...

    Assuming said necro would not be your sole source of damage, the difference in kill times pre- to post-nerf would almost certainly be unnoticable without a parser.
  11. Xnao Augur


    That is hearsay until he posts it.
  12. Xirtket Augur

    It's garbage we are even in discussion about this, the information about unlimited mana has failed on so many levels that it's pathetic. Congrats Eli on actually "knowing" what goes on in a raid, this IMO is a direct reflection on why things are the way they are in EQ :(
  13. Brogett Augur

    Are you claiming that the 1st, 2nd and 3rd classes before you on each of those three spheres of game play are the SAME class? Because it's fine to be say 4th best at everything - that would be a quite a powerful position out of 16 classes infact. However if someone is best at everything then yes they're OP.

    Mage maybe could be up there, but SKs for example (surely high up on XP due to swarm kiting) aren't going to be the best dps in raiding...
  14. Vivamort Augur

    No they are not all the same classes for each category, though some of them are.

    You bring up an interesting point when you mention SKs... SK's role on raids isn't DPS. so they shouldn't be rated on that scale. Are they good at the knight role in raid though? So on the raiding portion they are not what I was thinking of, I was thinking of DPS classes, since Necros share that job with them,
  15. MyToon New Member

    Having to switch to mage to be worth of a raid slot now. Mage and Wizards rule top dps in raids. used to be necros were the long term single target dps role but no longer. Most of our raiding necros no longer logging in or switched class to an alt.
  16. MyToon New Member

    Just wished I had not brought the expansion for the necro account before I realised.
  17. Crystilla Augur


    I don't mean this to be facetious so please don't take offense.

    While this thread is supposed to be about 'non' raiding necros and the DB effect ... what exactly are you referencing? Most raiding necros here said the DB affect doesn't hurt them at all or change what they're doing so I'm confused on most of your post as it conflicts with just about everyone else on that particular topic.

    If you're talking about the other accidental DPS adjustments, hopefully you have seen they're being reverted back (so sounded a bit dramatic to switch for a temporary issue). Basically I'm confused on what part is causing you to feel this way as it really wasn't clear.
  18. Forcallen Augur

    Different nerf to nercos "My toon". Deathbloom impacts our sustained and ability to keep going both raid and group. In raids because its only a small portion of 30 different things related to mana regen and since most dps toons get support the deathbloom nerf, even as bad as it was, isn't felt in most cases as most fights don't go long enough for it to be an issue. The issue the devs supposedly want to fix (to much mana for everyone, even though they claim necros) isn't caused by deathbloom to begin with its caused by the fact that the team has created 30 various buffs, support clicks, mana prez effects, whatever that everyone gets in a raid that allows all casters to go ape casting and in necros case since they can't dump mana they look "more guilty" so to speak. For groupers that lack support/buffs/clicks from a bunch of support classes means this nerf is felt, always. Other classes with similar abilities get to keep their versions of deathbloom and thats the debate in this thread for groupers at least. Raiding necros despite now falling behind a few other classes in regen which has never happened appear to be s o l.

    Loss of dps to necros is caused by the unrelated nerfs to slot 3 augs for dots, to the bard song line XXXX psalm of potency, to the necro bp click effect for VoA, RoF and CoTF and the enchanter buff amplifying aura. Supposedly the nerf to amplifying aura and the slot 3 augs will be undone and supposedly the nerf to the necro class bp click and bard song line will remain. There was another thread related to these nerfs but I believe its locked or just died. There was some back and forth on those nerfs in this thread but its not really the right place for it because its not related to the deathbloom nerf.
  19. Smallpox Augur

    Really hoping this is true.
    Yyin likes this.
  20. Yyin New Member

    Me too
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