Non-Raiding Necromancers

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by fransisco, Sep 28, 2013.

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  1. Aeasya New Member

    I have to say that this was a particularly funny jab. Good one! =)
  2. Reilloc Lorekeeper

    yes, we only get access to that once we are below 21,25, or 29 %, and it CANT go higher than that %. Yes it is nice, but that is ALL we have AND we cant be in combat to start it. so near unuseable on raid.
  3. Pyemia Elder

    First, we haven't seen those parses... I'd love to see them. But, frankly, I don't think they exist. I think someone just pulled '10 minutes' out of his rear end.

    Oh, and as long as we are asking for about the parses that said that this WASN'T unbalanced when they added it so many years ago. You trust their parses, right? How could they have been wrong when they introduced Death Bloom?
    Yyin likes this.
  4. Marton Augur

    Yeah, used to be ... and we used to stare into our spellbook when medding ... :eek:

    The game moved on, Death Bloom was given to necro class for a reason, it worked fine for 4 years. No reason to change an old ability.
    Yyin likes this.
  5. Pyemia Elder

    Passions are high.

    Just think if we were talking about a 50AC aug or something...
  6. dpsdpsdps Elder

    then people would be happy and not calling it a nerf.
  7. Champis New Member

    Had I known this was coming, here is what I would done differently.

    I would never have renewed 2 accounts.

    I certainly would not have purchased the pre-order on the one.

    End result paid more money-for less enjoyment and utility of my account. SoE actions are tantamount to bait-and-switch. IE fraud.

    My mindset atm is, this will likely be the last expansion for me. I really cant see renewing for #21.
  8. --Voodoo-- Augur

    You're wrong. Burst just means doing as much damage as you can as fast as you can, without regard to how long you can maintain that pace. Everyone can do it.

    You're right that more mana won't increase your burst DPS. More mana won't increase anyone's burst DPS. Cast and recast times are what limit burst. More mana regen increases the time that you can maintain that burst pace. Increases sustained DPS.

    In a group setting, sustained DPS is the only thing that matters. Sustained is essentially just burst spread out over burst time plus recovery time. Again, everyone can do it. With OOC, there's not a whole lot of difference between burst and sustained.

    If necro sustained DPS is no longer competitive, then it's a problem. Though I would suggest again that it should be solved by improving your other abilities, rather than putting all your eggs in the DB basket.

    Necro performance in fast-killing groups is a separate issue. An issue that even several necros have said isn't solved by dumping mana on it. You can solve it by lowering the time it takes to deliver your damage, though if you do that then you shouldn't have any sustained advantage. Or you can accept that that isn't the best situation for your class and ask for a better balance of content that does suit you.
  9. Noirfu Augur

    Unless you're the only warrior in the raid, you should be able to use it every 3 minutes when howl of the warlord refreshes making the cap pretty much irrelevant.
  10. Vivamort Augur

    I have read most of this and all the other threads pertaining to this issue, and I see no where that this is said by a necro. Maybe you are misreading it or something. More mana let's necros participate in those groups instead of be carried by the rest of the group. That issue is exactly why quick dots, pet swarms, and deathboom were made.
    Miklo, Marton, Evelyse and 3 others like this.
  11. --Voodoo-- Augur

    I'll try to elaborate. Even the post I was responding to made the point that more mana does not increase DPS. To be more specific, it doesn't increase peak DPS. DB, like all mana recovery abilities, adds to sustained DPS. As I said, if sustained is a problem, it should be addressed.

    Swifts and swarms allow you to deliver your damage quicker. DB just allows you to sustain that rate longer. While both are a factor in performance, I was only referring to your ability to deal significant damage to mobs if they're only living for ~45 seconds. Sorry for not being more clear.
  12. TheOriginalShaard Lorekeeper

    From Elidroth on the SOE boards....(10-01-2010)

    "The change I'm looking at right now is to change the reuse time to 5 minutes, and reduce the mana regeneration per tick by 200, from 2400, down to 2200. The HP payment will remain at 4000hp unshielded.

    This reduces the total mana regenerated to from 16,800 to 15,400 per use, or 93.33 mana/sec down to 51 mana/sec. (Mana/Re-use). This change keeps you 2nd only to Shaman for mana regen rate (where you are now already)."

    I think we have a smoking gun as far as proving that this change was an over reaction given that we now have Elidroth's reasoning from 3 YEARS AGO, and that since then, death bloom has remained constant and yet mana costs have risen. Bolded by me is where we were envisioned to be in terms of mana regen.

    Horses. Mouth.
    menown, Marton, Smallpox and 2 others like this.
  13. Artemis-Entreri Augur

    NM, it's not worth it.

    Mods feel free to delete this post.
  14. Artemis-Entreri Augur

    GL with the game re-balancing.

    Mods feel free to delete this post.
  15. Iolus New Member

    As a returning player I'm pretty disappointed in myself as I'm sure many others are for thinking these class balancing tactics have changed in EQ. This type of thing is exactly what drove myself and many others away years ago.

    What is the point of investing so much time to improve your character if anything can be taken away without any input from the entire class community you intend on taking it from.

    Tune the content not the class, another nail in the coffin IMO. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"
    Yyin, Kunon, Smallpox and 1 other person like this.
  16. MrFlik Journeyman

    The change with Death Bloom, well as a pure solo necro occasional group I can live with it.

    The EM changes were far worse and still causes problems for me with as intended mob adds in game even with EM13 and level 79 mage pet toys I use from an alt on the same account.
  17. Smallpox Augur


    There you have it in black and white.

    We (and I feel fairly confident that I can speak for most if not all of the Necro community) want Death Bloom un-nerfed.

    You (the Dev's) gave us Death Bloom three years ago to fix something that was broken, now you take it away and break us all over again. There is no good reason for it and your explanation as to why you did it stinks, and stinks badly.

    This thread is now 26 pages long, over 500 posts, and has almost 20,000 views (just behind the forum guidelines, and contacting support). Doesn't this tell you all anything?

    It was a mistake to nerf Death Bloom. Please fix it back.
    Yyin likes this.
  18. Daegun Augur

    All I know is that as of this morning my 5 accounts have had their renewing subscription cancelled. The content in the newest expansion was fairly lackluster, but the changes that have now impacted my primary class are intolerable.

    Death Bloom and swift dots were given to us to help make us relevant. As has been demonstrated several times in this thread, the once kings of mana regeneration are now scraping bottom of the barrel. My alt wizard has several thousand less aa's and much worse gear - yet is capable of sustaining higher damage output indefinitely and exponentially more burst. OOC regen years ago was by far the biggest loss of class "niche" - giving everyone a quick refill option. It and the readily available 3-4 hour enchanter crack made our lich somewhat irrelevant. Lich regen compared to spell cost has stagnated now to the point of obscurity.

    Death Bloom was a great way of making that up - an trigger-able "megalich" on a short timer that allowed us to keep pace. Our burst still blows, but between this and swift dots we could at least do our jobs in groups - and it allowed to maintain an edge in a field we were always great at (solo kiting) by eliminating the need to stop and rest. At the same time, other classes were given similarly powerful mana recovery tools. This wasn't fair in my opinion, but whatever. As long as I can do my job ... whatever.

    Now what am I left with? A craptastic lich that is a shadow of it's former self, and a few triggerable hat-tricks that leave my total mana recovery over time worse than most other classes.


    So yep, as of this morning my 5 accounts have had their renewing subscription cancelled.

    Cliche? Maybe. But SoE has been around long enough to know that nothing discourages the playerbase more than nerfs ... especially dramatic nerfs to abilities that have been around for years.
    Fizledots, Yyin, Marton and 1 other person like this.
  19. Fizledots New Member

    You know.... I keep coming back to this thread in hopes a dev or anyone from Sony shows the slightest bit of interest in the fact they have pretty much left such a horrible taste in an entire classes mouth that they would rather not renew... and I can honestly say I don't think they care... I think they are going to keep their head down until this "all blows over". What a crock
  20. Spamilton Journeyman

    At least we won't care as much when they finally shut down the servers. Maybe that's their plan? Na, that's giving them too much credit.
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