No need to nerf... Let's balance (Expierenced Warriors, need apply)

Even better.

Shield topple is currently laughable beyond the added dps. I was merely making a suggestion on some sort of short term reuse abilities for mitigation. Personally, even if they change it to just a straight block / dodge / parry of two hits it would still be pretty "eh" worthy. Even with the changes to shining so it won't bounce the buff. The reuse is too long to be even comparable to knights self healing, especially when you take in the fact that it shares a timer with the ridicule line.

Making it a staple to the class with it able to cycle with the prior expansions Shield Topple (lower damage, 2 hit avoid). Now that would be a good start and a step in the right direction for warriors.

I highly doubt SoE will give us a Final Stand increase. I HIGHLY doubt we will see any type of viable self heal to compete with either of the knight classes. Warriors don't heal, we mitigate. Asking for more of it when knights clearly have an advantage 7.5 out every 10.5 minutes in most situations isn't unreasonable.

Finding that balance between knights tanking in a pinch, and not making warriors godly enough so that we never die is a tough thing to do. I personally don't want a over powered warrior class because then the game gets boring. Tho when the class is so pedestrian out side of a years old Disc.. Well, that gets pretty damn boring too.

I think that alot of the issues, and arguments, surrounding class balance is simply a misunderstanding between how people view a different class. We can talk about the old days of warriors dual wielding vs sword and board now. Or we can banter about when warriors had the edge as far as hit-points and armor class goes. The one thing that should be commonly held tho, is that warriors are the best tanks when it comes to the raw ability to simply withstand any mob, not just 3 minutes out of every 10.5

I agree it is old/boring to never die, I also agree is old/boring to use discs that never change...but my frustration is when your otm to a target and you pass a light blue con see invis mob that kills you...this happened to me the other day...went through flash and fortitude, clicked final stand and a green hot pot hoping one of my healers would find me in time for the save but alas they did not and I was now waiting for a rezz. Years of playtime, current content raid gear, 5k+aa's and i cant handle a single lt blue mob....that needs to be fixed imo. A sk or pally in that same scenario may have just decided to swarm the mob and its friends for fun, frustrating.

Bracing stance is a liability in its current form. I tested it exactly once. Noticed that Shining dropped and then quickly removed the hotkey so I don't accidently make myself more vulnerable.

If it doesn't overwrite Shining anymore, then it is upgraded from liability to useless.

the slotting of the buff would of course help some, but guys this isnt gonna change much for us...more significant change, more out of the box thinking here i think is needed..would be really great if a dev could comment on this at some point and just say hey this is what were doing or even nothing is planned or whatever....i know every class out there says hey this is broken fix it asap but there are several classes that really do need help...war is one of the tops on that list...same with monk and bers imo

Change the effect to:

• Block Melee or Spells (2)

Duration: 1 tick

From what the little birds in Beta have been telling me about Knights and Warriors, is a very good reason they are being extremely quiet to Warriors right now...... Kudos to any warriors that choose to stay as warriors around if they really decide on this course of action, essentially from what I'm hearing Knights are getting Final Stand 1.3 . Hopefully they give you guys something more, but wouldn't count on it, they've been trying to murder the warrior class for quite some time now.

Honestly... 16 classes, 8 hour shift is easy math. The kind of work that Warriors need right now requires a considerably higher investment. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if they went after the low-hanging fruit first.

Sorry about reposting Lanthor's post.. it's my first time posting.. I have found myself hiding while not tanking. I feel the same as Lanthor about this. And, its just crazy that i feel its better for me to hide in certain situation. I really think it's come to us being 3 minute hero's and we are not even that anymore. Our only advantage over the knight classes is the 3 minutes of FS. What else is there? More hp's? same!! AC? same!! DPS lower!! Survivability? way lower!! agro single and area? way less!! I know you knight's think we have advantage over you.. But, Take out FS and give me one. Also.. im not scrapping playing a warrior for a knight. I will quit before that.. And, that is not far off.

If thats the case, gratz to the SK's, you are now the main tanks of norrath.../mourn the warrior class. I have 4 accounts that I actively play full with alts that I have played to max level (not max aa though). Ive tried but I just cant get into most classes...I Love Tanking, I Love being a warrior. I plan on being the warrior till the day the hampster keels over and the plug gets pulled...but it isnt looking good for our class right now...would be a shame to take out the original tanks in favor of a later added hybrid but i suppose its just buisness and somewhere it makes more sense to someone...just not me


GAH I hate sounding like a whiner but dang what else is left for us

It's not just you, many others have brought this up. Even a few knights have voiced how offensive this is.

Just to clarify SKs have been in game since day one, just like warriors and pallys~

doh my bad...for some reason was thinking sk, not zerker got added later...whoopsie

Did some more reading on it, sounds like it is similar to your older versions of defensives in terms that it has debuffs that go with it. Decreased melee damage and crit chance while active. By how much is unclear, but not like these things make any difference while tanking in a raid in any way. I would say that the lifetap component to the defensive more than makes up for this though.

Paladins sound very similar, except they get self heals instead of lifetaps.

It doesn't exactly sound class defining/changing to me if it for instance, shares a timer with either of our other defensives. Very different story if it is on its own timer, with how short our 20 % defensive timer is, we may very well be able to go deflect, Carapace + 2.0/visage, Mantle, Unholy Guardian, Carapace + 2.0 + third spire. This would last us about oh, ~11 - 12 mins straight That is of course an endurance line up, Deflect, Mantle/2.0 visage then Unholy Guardian would be much wiser for a heavy hitter who likes to 1 round tanks, only yielding about 5 mins.

Just have to see what happens, wasn't actually trying to depress anybody, just a FYI.

idk why singling out sks on this new disc..yeah we getting one, no its not better it comes with a 60% handicap to dps, and dps is how we heal ourselves unlike pallies, its also only 1% more mitigation than our mantle, the biggest issue with this is that it doesnt share a timer, but at same time if it did, then there'd be zero point to making it. the thing is, no one asked for another defensive disc, not in any way whatsoever. the one thing sks have asked for and asked for years, is raid utility and been ignored. something some wars are asking for as well for something to do when not tanking understandably. it seems to me that both classes are getting ignored, repeatedly, and we're taking it out on each other.

"some" wars

Afaik most wars, in contrast to some wars, don't want raid utility. Most wars want the unmatched ability to survive, not just require less healing, the most brutal battles. Most wars want to demonstrate their mastery of arms and armor. And most wars want to make themselves the focus of attacks keeping frailer players safe from harm.

A few Warriors believed that when knights were given parity with Warriors in what was supposed to be our greatest strength, survival that it was necessary to reduce the group friendly utility gap...in group content. We've asked for and received (sometimes more than requested) some utility that arguably could be seen as appropriate for any class in the Tank Archetype. Don't ask a Warrior to heal you missing 30K HP's and don't ask a Warrior to pull a single from the back of a crowded room - that's outside the tank archetype part this/part that hybrid stuff.

When not bearing the brunt of attacks what makes sense for a 100% fighter to do? Um effectively wield that sword?? Do ya think?

Not singling out sk's, I do NOT want sk's nerfed, nor do I harbor ill will towards any class that gets an upgrade. I just think its time my class got looked at too. Weve used the same disc, as our bread and butter for years and years and the point were trying to make here is that others are getting there deserved upgrades over and over again closing the gaps that seperate "us" from everyone else in the realm of tanking, without seeing ANY work being done to our disc. Well not ANY because we did get flash. We want our new toys toys too...we want to improve and progress our toons too...we want to continue to fill our only niche in the game. This thread is about warriors...sk's are discussed as comparison as are pallys but it is not to single you guys out, again just comparing benchmarks. Do I want tanks OP like they were way back when? Of course not (well maybe a little XD), I just want to be the true tank that I was told I was when I rolled my character and that I have been for so many years even though its slowly slipping away and with minimal attention from anyone other then the wars themselves

Hrrmmmm, if it is only a 60 % handicap to melee dps, it will still heal us more for duration due to proc taps unless said SK is too stupid to use their 2.0 w/ mantle or carapace. Seems a little exaggerated to say we won't be able to use this to its fullest potential. Anyways agreed, would rather more raid utility, but having a defensive line up that can go on for ~12 mins isn't bad either.

To me it seems the new disc does add some raid utility, just not as much as we may like. That being said I would like to see SK and Pallys get Crusaders Call, vs willfull death (at least for SK).

As far as some people in this thread calling out one class or another, well there is a history behind that, and in the end it never goes well for either class involved.

I as a sk would love for warriors to be prime tank in every situation as long as folks would feel the want to have a sk or pally in the same group as a warrior? personally i think they need to combine all three classes into one
and you choose a stance for each class if you decide you want to be a sk then you lose mitigation
if you decide you need to be a warrior then you lose all the utility of the other two and gain the mitigation , i think this would be the only way you could ever have all three happy.