Next TLP server PVP Sullon Zek ruleset.

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Galactron, Oct 17, 2018.

  1. HoodenShuklak Augur

    Couldnt be worse than phinny 3 imo.
  2. Phased Sullon Zek Lorekeeper

    Just need to make sure they do no instancing and no pick zones, I think you need to force conflict for PvP to work. Would also need to re-implement corpse runs, just wouldn't be a true Sullon Zek experience without corpse camping.
  3. Hinastrom Elder

    Is your belief that there is demand for this based on anything? Or you just want that to be the reality.

    I want MMO's to be thriving again, with meaningful progression/gearing/leveling systems like everquest has/had. I know the majority of the market is not in my headspace, they want casual wow style progression. I've accepted it.
    Barton likes this.
  4. MoveFastRZ Bloodsaber

    It doesn't really matter if he has evidence. DBG won't do it. Even as an event sever, I doubt they would want the headache. The third-party program cat is totally out of the bag in EQ, and you can't get PvP back that won't embarrass anyone who is paying attention.
    snailish likes this.
  5. snailish Augur

    ^this


    Wasn't Sullon Zek ruleset was a CSR nightmare back in the day? --and we have far less CSR intervention now. Wasn't it on Sullon Zek "no rules" pvp that a bard caused a lot of crying with the sad, sad song they played? (resulting in a bunch of rules being applied...)

    Phinny 3 next year would have a huge population with minimal work needed. Easy $.

    Other ideas... maybe. PVP has to smell like a headache to them, or it would have been tried by now?
    Barton likes this.
  6. Galactron Journeyman


    A Phinny 3? How about doing something different for a change. PVP TLP.

    If you build it they will come.
  7. Machentoo Augur


    Quoting 80's movies doesn't make it so.
    Barton likes this.
  8. snailish Augur

    I'm feeling trolled tbh, but will take the bait:

    Phinny has been a homerun. Everyone quits that server tomorrow and they made the $ off it.

    Coirnav (Phinny 2) has been a base hit so far... slower XP was a bad move in hindsight, and the timing was a bit off. But, it probably still made enough money and enough people are playing there so no need to begrudge them their fun.

    Phinny 3, if launched at next anniversary time, would have timing advantages* Coirnav didn't have. Assuming they give it at least Phinny XP (better would be smarter imo) there will be a large population to recapture into the early eras of progression. A population that has proven they will play.

    Note: I'm not against them doing a PVP server, but without them sharing internal numbers/info it doesn't seem like it is the obvious win from the outside compared to other options. They could hedge their bet and do something PVP that feeds into Zek if it dies out, a Phinny 3 and a Phinny 3 with FV loot. Lauched at the same time I don't think they split population, since the appeal of each is rather different... but if there is only going to be one, I'm not betting on it being a pvp.

    *timing advantages:
    -Agnarr well into the lock, rather than at content people were excited to do. Those still playing on Agnarr are probably the Agnarr lifers.
    -All other progression servers are pretty far along, even the slowest of the current will be many eras out of the normal peak progression times era wise (even if they did a new thing, like launch it in Kunark or Velious --please!)
  9. MoveFastRZ Bloodsaber

    You're talking about Fansy, who was one of the coolest things ever to happen to EQ, is beloved about present DBG staff, etc. He's actually a good argument for PvP (and the creativity it provokes), rather than against it.

    Sullon was not a huge CSR suck. If anything, it was the least-CSR-intensive server because it was the only one that was always anything-goes. The other PvP servers were places where petitions could be filed for training, zone disruption, etc. On SZ none of that was disallowed.

    In general, I don't think the PvP servers require more attention than others. But if you let the inmates run the asylum on a blue server, what's the worst that could happen? It's bad, but it's not nearly as bad as it is on a server where people can attack each other.

    At the end of the day, the verdict is in concerning FFA PvP gameplay in MMOs: The wolves shear the sheep for a little while, then the sheep get fed up and leave and you have a desolate server left over with a few wolves on it. Over time, even the wolves get bored and leave except the most serious no-lifers.

    People who aren't hardcore players WILL play PvP games happily for a long time. But those games generally have matchmaking algorithms, or are much more casual. They are not FFA PvP open world MMOs (with a handful of exceptions, which are MMOs tuned specifically for PvP, and even in those cases it is rarely FFA, it's usually RvR, etc.)

    I hope we get a PvP TLP. I would play it. I would not say it is likely to be any good, and I will say it is likely to be an embarrassment to the game and the people who still play it.
  10. Barton The Mischievous

    Fansy was an annoying *******, people who don't remember that probably did not have to play with him.
  11. WaitingforMoreEQ WaitingforTBC

    No, it was basically the only server i ever played on that wasn't lawyerquest 24/7

    No. Phinny is dead and will remain dead. It doesn't matter if the devs give you free loot and flags virtually nobody cares about EQ post OoW
  12. Febb Augur

    We're still waiting on you to prove that Phinny is dead.
    snailish likes this.
  13. Smakk Journeyman

    I personally don't care what kind of server the next TLP will be has long as it is fun. Just putting another carbon-copy of a server that has been rehashed over and over since Fippy/Combine isn't a good idea in my humble opinion.

    Here are some of the options DBG are possibly looking at for the 20th anniversary server:

    PVP TLP - too limited of player base, I think DBG wants has many people has possible in on a new server, PVP just too much of a turn off.
    Phinny3 TLP - may work, but not new or exciting, I guess if you like doing the same thing over and over this would be for you.
    Event TLP - I liked Quarm (and the single death server, forget the name), but for a 20th anniversary edition, I would think more permanent.
    FV/Brekt TLP - FV server almost always full, even after all these years, may work for a TLP.

    Basically, I would advocate for a hybrid version of all those. Dedicated PVP zones, increased Xp because yes, events with GMs randomly to keep it interesting, and last but not least FV loot system. I think something like that would be enough to draw in the player base from all over, definitely would not be a carbon-copy.
  14. MoveFastRZ Bloodsaber

    I do agree that solutions which allow people to get their PvP fix on blue servers are probably the way to go if the goal is to attract the occasional subscription from a PvP veteran without having to dedicate resources to balancing/fixing PvP.

    PvP-enabled zones would be one way. Fixing /guildwar would be another. Allowing limited crossteaming for players who had turned in their Tome of Order and Discord would be another.
  15. snailish Augur

    A racing unlock server with PVP enabled in raid zones might actually work. CSR will need to be ban-happy early and hard for those that will try and cheat though --even if it is "no rules" and follows more of a zek ruleset rather than just being Sleeper/Combine with some situational pvp.

    Racing unlock likely is only a handful of guilds competing anyways, the case can possibly be made that pvp helps such a ruleset resolve their own "rotations and/or first in force" situations.

    I think racing unlock without PVP could have a measure of success as well. But it doesn't need to be launched alone, since you'd barely be splitting population from a Phinny 3.0 (whether it had free trade loot, superfast XP, later-era start or whatever).
  16. Pictarous Augur

    ANOTHER “waaaa I’ve got the data! PvP would be popular I swear waaaaa”

    Sorry buckaroo, EQ PvP is garbage, and every PvP server is either already shut down, or sub 20 players.

    Not to mention the biweekly dev responses of:
    “We are not making a PvP server.”
    “There is no interest in a PvP server.”

    EQ PvP is dead and has been dead for 15+ years, give it up.
  17. MoveFastRZ Bloodsaber

    I think it would be a lot of fun, but bear this in mind: the P99 red server has been around for a long time. The people who play there (and there are probably between 100-400 who would come to DBG servers for a TLP that has PvP in it) have spent the past several years learning literally every last tiny trick in the book to gain an advantage in classic/Kunark/Velious PvP. They're not the most functional community (the largest guild, Holocaust, was banned for arranging a bunch of corpses in a swastika shape), and they would probably stomp everyone in PvP.

    On Zek, the PvP mechanics at max level are just an utter mess. That's not the community's fault. But on Red99 the PvP mechanics and cheat detection are much better, but the server is still a ghost town. That's on the community. They have really shot themselves in the foot.
  18. MoveFastRZ Bloodsaber

    I think I've seen one explicit dev response on this issue the whole time I've been posting here.

    PvP isn't dead, it's just very, very underpopulated. Last time I was on Zek, <Ascending Dawn> (one of the guilds that killed the Sleeper) was back in a limited/family form.

    You're also way off on how long it has been dead. Zek had a good, long run after the server merge and declined very gradually. Until late 2016/early 2017, there was still a raiding guild on Zek at any given time.

    That being said, EQ PvP, although it wasn't always garbage, certainly is now, and you're right that people who think a PvP TLP server would be just as popular as blue, for anywhere near as long as blue, and without a ton of extra problems, are almost certainly deluding themselves.
    snailish likes this.
  19. mattie diesel Journeyman

    I see there's big difference in opinion among people who want phinny 3 vs a pvp zekish tlp, but honestly lets go for some spice. Give us a pvp tlp one day, I'd even play a locked pvp tlp ffs, for velious or planes. A lot of fun for the ppl who hop on. If you wanna get technical we're just pumping out tlp servers to re-experience the same 50-60-65 levels in which there's nearly identical servers where you could already have a headstart by starting fresh there & rely on aid of mass guild structure, alot of uncamped magic's and named to access since the market's fluffed with their drops. We need mild to moderate player-bases to start to build for new concepts for servers more so than new places made of time-tier realm cloning. People overrate the fluff of playing the game as an end raider being your driving force to stay on top in relevancy of the servers state and speed of completion, that versus actually venturing a toon when half the server or more is already within the final 10 player levels and you need to upstand the tide of sparce group members and self reliant resistance to the pains of patience at times of trial. Enjoying the game at pace and grouping/guilding casually is arguably more fun then constantly stepping on what combat content extists and always thirsting through with the only or one of the only few guilds managing to hold the toughest raids with the most uptime's running. Play for the fun not for what's expected of you as a dedicated or long-term player.
  20. Accipiter Old Timer


    Why are you so desperate for Phinny to be dead?