New TLP & Rogues

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Vetis, Jan 22, 2024.

  1. Vetis Augur

    Wait what about Paladins?
    jeskola likes this.
  2. coltongrundy Augur

    paladins are kinda OP since they added the perk that makes you not lose your level
  3. Mashef Augur

    They can LOH rotation and toss 0% rezzes around since most raiders have the perk to not de-level. Superior class.
    fransisco likes this.
  4. Bernel Augur

  5. Manafasto Augur

    Paladins do not even come close to the issues of a rogue. Just bringing this up in a thread like this is derailing the issue at hand.

    Rogues need improvements in multiple aspects of the game. Just because the game is in maintenance mode does not mean they cannot help with the glaring issues of the class.
  6. fransisco Augur

    isnt the issue that monks are brokenly op, rather than rogues are bad?
  7. Ddezul Augur

    Issue is itemization early on
  8. Drencrom Beimeith's Supervisor

    Give all Rogues +5% innate backstab damage across the board and call it a day.
  9. Arclyte Augur

    rogue poison revamp starting in classic is the answer

    also nerf monks
  10. Beardsy Elder

    Yeah, kinda. It's also an ego issue with bad rogues that either suck so bad they're beyond help or those that aren't willing to understand how to play the class better. Some of these rogues are acting as if a top end skilled rogue is going to be half the damage of a monk, you won't. If you're good you won't be more than 10-15% behind a monk.

    Rogues have 2 sets of damage discs and most rogues don't even use Kinesthetics or Deadly Precision for some reason, they're both 5 minute cooldowns on separate timers. Though sometimes fights are too short to use them so then the rogue is screwed.

    I think starting in TSS rogues should also get the same line that Warrior and Zerkers get "Battle Leap" with enough AA eventually becomes a permanent(Until you die/zone) Buff that gives you a 30% boost in dmg. That alone would close the gap with monks.Hell it wouldn't even need to be 30%, even if it was 10% I'd be ok with it.

    Our "Aura" is also useless, Rogues should get an Endurance stat Boost+ Endurance regen aura. Running out of endurance is one of the worst experiences in this game as a pure melee.

    Would also be nice if our "Sneak attack" was changed to usable while in combat but then we'd need to change the name of it.

    Assassinate should also work on all mobs like Zerker's Decapitate does, but that's a whole other monster to deal with.
    fransisco likes this.
  11. Ddezul Augur

    I played a rogue on yelinak through DoDH. Never again.
    Everything has to be just right to top parses.
    I was always top 3 but rarely top. Granted the 'uber' monk would burn glyphs if he saw someone catching him on the parse but the point remains.
    Rogues are a one trick pony but they aren't even the best at that trick.

    Illusions are fun and being able to go where you want is nice.

    Doesn't outweigh the negatives of the class.
    Vetis likes this.
  12. Beardsy Elder

    Again, 100% ego based. There's zero downside to playing a rogue if you don't care about not being #1 when overpowered monks exist.

    Have you tried getting good? If top 3-5 isn't good enough then play something else *shrugs*
    fransisco likes this.
  13. Ishbu Augur

    The problem is if everyone "gets good" then the 3-10 monks all out parse the rogues, so do the handful of wizards, also necros in many cases and as you get towards pop and GoD so can mages. Now zerkers exist.

    Rogues need to get good and have players of other classes not to actually matter in the first year or 2 of a TLP. That's not fun.
  14. Vetis Augur

    Okay but.. we're talking about early era rogues, Classic - Velious type conversation. TSS would be years after a server launch. So I don't understand this response.
  15. coltongrundy Augur

    Deadly Precision is not even available in classic, kunark, velious, or luclin.

    The biggest problem is that rogue daggers are intentionally bad by design. I guess devs thought backstab damage would make up for poor weapons and worse auto attack damage, but it doesn't. In later expansions they finally figured that out and made DMG and Backstab DMG separate stats on weapons, but for some reason even after knowing that was a problem, they kept them equal for earlier expansions.
  16. Vetis Augur

    Sorry, this is a childs argument. "Get good" Lol, "Zero downside to playing rogue."

    Clearly, you've never played rogue. Here are some downsides.

    Pets out DPS you in classic. (And no, we're not talking about enchanter charm here, sadly.)
    Bards out DPs you in Luclin.
    You can't solo.

    Like, this is the tip of the ice berg and this list alone shows you how trash rogue's are. Someone said it perfectly earlier, you're a 1 trick pony and you're not even good at the one thing you do.

    How does one "get good" at rogue exactly? Push backstab faster? It's an auto attack class, lets not sit here and pretend like it takes any skill to play a rogue.

    "Oh Vetis, but I did the Ivyshae Blade quest and when it procs i run around the mob and backstab when its stunned."

    Oh cool, the blade that warriors hate that you use on raids cause you steal aggro?

    "Vetis, bro, I run through the mob and then backwards and if you catch the server tick just right you can get their back."

    Nice, you still get out DPS'd in a group where you always have their back though?

    "Vetis, rogue's can pull bro."

    Better than monks? Bards? Hell even SK's with their prenerf circlet of shadow or warriors before taunt got nerfed smoked you in pulls.

    "Vetis, rogues are essential for raid assist."

    Okay bud, this conversation is over rofl.

    I'll tell you what, make a list of priority order of who you're trying to group with. If rogue isn't at the bottom of that list (the one class that needs a group more than anyone else mind you) I'll know for sure you have no idea what you're talking about.
    Appren, Bobbybick and Dre. like this.
  17. coltongrundy Augur

    how do rogues pull? I thought the throw/sneak thing was nerfed a long time ago, they don't get their single target 1 tick mez until DoN, don't get aoe trap 1 tick mez until SoF, and escape has such a long cooldown it cannot be used like FD or fading memories.

    monks with their FD, distant strike, and pacify abilities; bards with their sonic disturbance, pacify songs, mez songs, and fading memories; SKs with their snares, terrors, and FD; even necros with snare, fd, mez; enchanters with pacify, mez, memblur, charm; all of these classes, and even more classes that i haven't mentioned, have better pulling tools than anything that i know of that rogues can do, until Secrets of Faydwer they finally get Fadelure
  18. Vetis Augur

    Exactly my point bro, they don't.
  19. Bobbybick Only Banned Twice

    Rogues pull the same way a warrior does early on, with a bow or throwing weapon or throw stone if you are real broke. You make the rogue pull because sending any other class is almost always less efficient as long as your group can handle whatever the rogue brings in, which on most TLPs with additional player power is usually fine.
    Vetis likes this.
  20. Pyne New Member

    The best reason to play a rogue is 0 competition for the occasional piece of rogue only raid gear
    Dre. likes this.