New Shawl Nerf is Clownshoes

Ok. Well, big question has to be at this point:

Is this still worth doing?

Followed by, if it isn't, than why even have shawl 3.0 other than to get a pretty good aug? Augs are nice and all, but what made the shawl special was the effect. Nerf that and congrats on doing all the trades as well as all the questing to gain a bit more HEM. Big whoop. The return on investment of time and plat goes out the window. It looks like the usual surgery with a sledgehammer and a chainsaw methodology. Devs, please make another pass at this as you may have nerfed the shawl 3.0 into pointlessness.

Considering the nerf was retroactive for the UF shawl as well, as pointless as the proc is now...you're only hurting yourself by not getting the aug --- the quests are stupidly easy and it takes about 2 hours from start to finish to complete (which might be why it was nerfed, who knows -- it's dumb but it is what it is).

Maybe they'll fix it (hopefully), maybe they won't (more likely). As it stands now though, it's the best aug in the game for the majority of classes

Pardon my ignorance, maybe I am just reading it wrong... When the caster shawls proc, you do get that initial mana return correct? In addition to the initi return is a tick that is shown in song window that if you do not cast a spell within that time then you get another mana return. Correct?

The issue being the original mana return is halved, the second half comes in 6 seconds but everyone is casting a spell by then. As a result no caster is getting that second mana return just the first. Is this correct?

Explicit, I am starting it from the beginning, with the "beginning" being lvling the tradeskills.

I would go about it very slowly then, setting up a buyer overnight for rare items that people tend to overprice etc etc. Basically take your time maxing TS, it's only an enormous plat sink if you rush through it in a day or two - this provides "something to do" while not grouping or xping as well as a goal to work toward.

As for the shawl itself, the effect is still there and still works (for priests anyhow) but it is not nearly as powerful as it was before the nerf. It's still the best aug out there and it still provides a mana return (albeit a small one), I would say it's definitely worth it even if tradeskills aren't your thing.

The problem is, I would LOVE Developer Feedback.

As far as I am concerned this Shawl "Nerf" is a Bug and should be bugged.

Chandrok is on record saying "He didn't decrease the power at all its same power" he even bolded it.

Patch Notes are on Record saying "Shawl Effect was increased"

So at this point, it's a bug, unless developers say otherwise.

BTW shawl doesnt proc on 80% of casts.

I just did multiple 62 sec chain casts.

Cycle was
1.8 Cast .5 Global 2.2 Cast .5 Global 2.2 Cast .5 Global 2.2 Cast .5 Global: 10.4 Seconds a cycle
4 Casts. Times 6 Cycles. 24 Casts.

I'd average 2-3 Procs per 24 casts. About 10% procs.

However, if its 10% chance, and Im casting depending on average 2 spells within 6 seconds. Im losing 10% of shawls Mana Return (10% * 2 * 50% since u lose half on proc-proc)

When I did a 5 min chain cast I lost 8 double procs for a total of 1200 mana.

Not huge, but not needed. Since you could increase the shawl by 15 Mana back a proc buff, and it should even out.

No.
It *used* to give an initial mana return on the int caster version, then if you didn't use the proc before it faded, an additional mana return. Now, you get a proc buff, that if you keep it on for six seconds and do not cast a DD that will use it, you get the mana from that tick, and then the secondary mana return.
You need to not cast after getting the proc to get any mana at all.

So, the nerf does not effect necros at all.

Better unnerf it to work on dots!

So for INT casters, any mana return is backloaded. You get the initial proc, you get the damage, but no mana. You wait six seconds, then you get both mana returns?

That seriously does not make any sense. No INT caster is going to wait six seconds for 200-250 mana. And yet WIS casters are able to get the initial mana return, then wait six seconds for a secondary mana return? Or is WIS casters also not getting an initial mana return at first...

Nerfs are bad

Though clownshoes might be funny~

No initial mana return on the priest shawl. You must wait a tick before you get any mana.

Int caster shawl was changed to cast two effects with this patch, splitting the mana and the damage off, so that's something- they'll now actually get some mana from it. Still a downgrade in mana from before, but that's how it goes, I guess.

Looks like today's patch solved the mana return issue. As for the nerf from the original 2.0 - I would say it was simply a part of the overall nerf on the UF sympathetic augs. Shawl 2.0 was left alone back then because it was very rare (how many people have attained it before HoT? 20? 50? out of the whole playerbase) and didn't affect the big picture.

Now they made Shawl 3.0, and made it much more accessible to the players. This item will be attained by a LOT of people. The new shawl cannot be worse than the old one. But it cannot have the same mana return - otherwise it effectively undoes the sympathetic aug nerf, and they stand by that nerf. The only solution is to finally nerf Shawl 2.0. I don't see how else they could make Shawl 3.0 worth doing.

And yes, it's still definitely worth doing.

Something is not adding up here at all, if the shawl truly is only procing on 10% of casts then that's either been lowered or im feeling the reduced mana returns off the proc a lot more than I thought. I wish I parsed it prior to this nerf but im positive the original shawl proc'd way more than 10% of the time and Lucy agrees with that too.

Just did grellath for the first time since shawl patch, ended fight at 45% mana - Normally end it at around 70% mana. Fight duration approx the same, same exact heal weaves.

There has been a drastic nerf to the mana returns from the shawl and I would love some clarity as to what was actually done to reduce the mana gains from the shawl.

Here's a blip from the update.

I'd love to hear how this was in any way/shape/form an increase in power. 'Splain it to me Lucy.

For real though, all im looking for is some clarification and if its going to get fixed or if this was actually intended. Im sure you can understand my confusion as the patch notes pitched this as an "increase in power" and it's anything but that.

There is no real bright side to any of the shawl changes but I will at least say it is *somewhat* nice that keeping Gosik's aria running from a bard at least keeps my mage from eating the shawl proc when he casts fire spells... allowing me to get the full effect of the shawls mana recovery proc *phantom tick permitting*

Lucy's proc rate info isn't quite right, since shawl procs are based off the cast time of the spell.

But this is a complete downside change, under NO circumstances is it better than the old shawl proc. At BEST, it is the same amount of regen. In any actual use, it is far worse.

Lucy is reading the data wrong. It's nowhere near 80%.

Here's an accurate interpretation of the spell data: (thank you Beimeith and raidloot.com)

The proc rate is 8.0% and it's just a base rate that is scaled down the faster you cast. Rtugok explained it during beta but the Beta forums are closed now.

In short, for this particular case, the actual proc rate in percents is almost equal to the cast time of the spell in seconds.

If the procs are near useless in a lot of cases, then why even need all TSs maxed etc just to get a nice aug? Seems kind of meh.

It's the new BiC

This may be true now, but wasn't prior to this patch. The facts just don't support it sorry.

I cast 112 spells that could proc the shawl on April 1st Grellath, out of 112 casts I got 38 shawl procs. That's a far cry from the Sub 8% you're claiming, although its lower than the 80% I thought it was. It use to be approx 30% according to my cast parses.




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