New server start challenge and blog!

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Laronk, Jul 27, 2018.

  1. CrazyLarth Augur

    i used to add skills to my movement like walking left arrow would do a forage it was /loc so can find my body to get my gear. lol

    or add a spell cast to my casting on mobs like create an item to level my spell casting skills.

    My friend would never level unless he raised all his skills up 1st each level are you planing to do that?

    I do wish they would put in the trade-skills an auto the ability to drink so I can level my alcohol.
  2. Laronk Augur

    Level 35 and still questing, so many quests here in Blightfire moors. It's definitely slower to quest exp wise but it seems funner than the normal grind.

    I got a cool clicky from a level 30 something quest

    Supposedly it works upto level 95 I wonder what other cool clickies I've been missing out on.
    Metanis likes this.
  3. Laronk Augur

    AANNDD we're level 48 now WOO

    We've finished all of the blightfire moors quests and Stone Hive is also smashed


    I don't know how much played time anymore because I've setup as a trader in the bazaar where I sell all my defiant armor and some reseller cleans me out every night (thank you sir).

    Also right now I am enjoying the pleasure, the astounding pleasure of catching up my casting skills it's going faster this time but some of them were around 125 and my cap is 240 now.

    The only other problem is grouping, there's pretty much no one in need of a group. It's hard to make a group.
    IblisTheMage likes this.
  4. Rickate Augur

    So you're in Stone Hive with a higher level character killing the mobs for terrible rewards, it's not a new player experience but hopefully it's fun. Spoiler alert, if you want to keep completing all the HJ progression you will need high Tailoring or a lot of luck.
  5. Laronk Augur

    Everything was dark blue and the rewards were upgrades the only thing there was a higher level character for was a Nice Gent from general chat to help me kill the queen. Stone hive is 36-45 so it's not like I way overstayed.
    Stone hive is also a zone where I'd normally PL characters. Its a great place for exp per kill and difficulty and at the same time I got a few guranteed defiant peices I missed.

    Level 63 now did some black feather roost quests but a bit more of a grind.
  6. Laronk Augur

    Actually, how are the rewards terrible Rickate?

    Where would you suggest new players go around level 40 where they're going to get good non-visible slots and good exp? Or how would you suggest a new player play I want to find what the game is like for a returning player without a high-level character. Stuff in the bazaar is expensive.

    Really I think the developers should have to go play a new character on a server where they don't know anyone and don't have a pre-made group. There's a lot wrong with the low-level game experience (modern game needs help, TLP is fine)
  7. Rickate Augur

    Completing Stone Hive you get 3 pieces you "should" get from doing dailies, 4 pieces of jewelry which cost about 1500pp total (requires Level 40 to purchase in PoK) if you actually need those stats, you have had 12/24 for awhile, I usually go with 20/36 offhand from Roanoak if I don't twink and there are various other options, you can grab a Bow and have a no AC range, the Shield is of little use, so you get Bracer, Gloves, Legs and Feet. Right now it's 109pp for Feet on Xegony. And then the obvious problem, blink and you're Level 63 and if you're still using Ornate it's something you want to upgrade soon if you haven't done so yet.

    Spot checked a few things but can't find a /buyer making a genuine offer, just bottom feeders trying to scam newbies into selling items way below market price. LQ Pelt for sale is 99 at 670pp but an asking price isn't a reliable indicator. Really good chance if you had spent the same amount of time as you did in Stone Hive killing weak con animals in Mesa you end up with enough Leather Padding or Pelts and Spiderling Silk if you're lazy to come up with 1950pp and buy Intricate Defiant Chain Boots, Gloves, Helm and Arms and especially with a J1 merc you can get to 48 in Mesa without worrying about upgrading your gear.

    Hand in hand with higher traffic is the flexibility given by grinding mobs, if someone wants to join in Stone Hive you might have to decide between heading to the basement that you've already done or declining the invite. Or a group is forming in ;gen and it's a quick Origin and head to whatever zone from Mesa while from Stone Hive do you want to abandon your quest progress or return to the zone when it's no longer good XP, neither option is all that appealing.

    TSS HJ works well enough if you have the backstop of twinking, buffs and/or help, especially to deal with the final encounters in the Moors, Stone Hive and Roost lines or to be able to throw some plat at Tailoring to be able to finish Mesa. You have little to no "risk" of being stuck and the aggravation of needing Bixie Queen for potentially days, completing the quests can be more interesting than simply grinding weak cons in Mesa and instead of being headed towards a wall you're headed towards the off-ramp of Paragon, Remnant of Tranquility, having the alt loot every drop on an Anguish clear or whatever and if you're still rocking Ornate at that point it won't really matter. It's still not a great option to run half-way across a zone for a hail or to loot a Green Ooze Bud.

    To suggest something requires knowing a goal. The one consistent thing is that plat is useful and player to player plat rises with inflation while vendor loot and quest rewards do not. Truly absurd guaranteed 4pp from a Level 7 mob remains adequate, currently on Xegony Insearchof is paying 5gp each for 945 Vegetables which is around 400pp profit for combining some vendor items. Don't spend the plat unless the mobs are giving you a hard time or you can resell the item since in the long run purchasing a non-attunable item can be essentially free or can even result in a profit.

    The two items virtually guaranteed to always sell are Fresh Meat and Ice of Velious. At Stone Hive level you have Leather Padding, Rockhopper Hides, various Fishing options if you are a medding class or in the mood for non-combat gains, Wakening Lands, Velium, Black Acrylia, LDoN Tempers and Crystalline Silk. Leading to Maiden's Eye, Acrylia Caverns, Cobalt Scar (fairly pointless until you can kill Cobalt Drakes), West Wastes, Natimbi and Cazic Thule which is followed by PoP.

    The issue is making new players aware of the options available to them, you can reach Level 7 with a 5/19 weapon, 69/69 Charm and decent BP, Arms, Mask, Belt, Shield and 10 slot 50% WR Bag without turning on attack or casting a spell. Or you can follow Absor's suggestion and give him a Chunk of Bronze to upgrade to a 5/28 weapon and then a Chunk of Iron (requires no combat if you have invis and gate) to upgrade to a 6/28 weapon. Once you kill either the 2nd or 3rd highest level killable mob in the zone or a specific spawn point that drops the same weapons for no apparent reason you might get a 7/24 weapon at which point a genuinely new player would likely have trouble deciding between 5/19 and 7/24 weapon.

    You can't really find out what it's like for a new player because they lose tells and grouping opportunities in combat spam. Don't know how to make an assist key, would happily sell Ice of Velious for 100pp in /barter on Xegony and think that was a lot of plat, waste their time bringing Chunks of Bronze and Iron to Absor when Boawb/Reakash offer a far superior weapon, would never know to get their starting plat by making Vegetables for Insearchof (different players and different sub-combines on different servers), would have no idea why getting a Skinning Knife early in their hunting days is important and might not figure out why their Monk started killing a lot slower after looting a Greater Lightstone.

    I've (ab)used more low level content than most players but simply basic knowledge of combat mechanics puts you far ahead of any genuinely new player. Your J1 merc (I'll assume, since you mentioned putting a /trader up) is a massive edge over any f2p player which is likely how most people first play the game these days. You can place arbitrary limits and use A5 or even lower mercs, can avoid defiant gear, you can try to level in banded with a combine weapon but you will never replicate the confusion and frustration that new players can experience as you will always understand the situation.

    Best bet for new players is probably auto-giving Guilds and the Guild Lobby to new players and eliminating Novices of xxxx so they would have to join an actual guild and the high volume Guilds would figure out a way that new players would most likely pick a large and active guild. Secalna tries her best but she can't really teach new players even the basics of the game.
    Mithra, Metanis and Laronk like this.
  8. Laronk Augur

    Blah I had a response but I guess the forums ate it!

    I actually have a way better experience than new players because I understand how agro works and such which means the new player experience would be worse.

    I think the heroes journey quests need to hand hold more, I did feel the need to look on allakhazam a bit. Even though the quest system is better than it was it needs some help.

    A server merge would probably be beneficial to the low level game it's really hard to get groups before the 90's at least just because there's a lack of players.

    Your guild idea would probably help a bit
  9. Leigo You come here often?

    Roll a mage! No Merc needed!
  10. IblisTheMage Augur

    Errr, just a thought: DBG could create a seperate default starting server (“Origin”) that characters start on unless specified otherwise, and then have the character select server at level 100, implemented with a free server transfer popping up every time the character logs in. Leveling is capped at 100. XP bonus like FV, toons created are automatically entered into the officer-less guild The Returned.
    Venau and aindriuc like this.
  11. Rickate Augur

    Dzarn made Hero's Journey and whatever it was intended to be, it turned into Dzarn's favorite thing which is a meaningless distinction for the 1% of the 1% of players. If you're going to complete 366 LDoN missions and BiC it's not like the Stone Hive quests make any meaningful difference to the amount of effort required to complete Hero's Journey, if you're not going to do BiC and/or 366 LDoN missions then what's the point of HJ?

    One of the most extreme examples is Madu's Armor, when implemented someone decided this was sufficient time and effort to get nearly a full set of armor (1 bracer). Dzarn decided it was worth Flawed Shoulders, the same reward given out for killing 5 mobs in Velk's Lab. Additional if he was even vaguely interested in providing a benefit to new players he would have substantially lowered the required level on the quests from 40, starting the quests at that level is very inefficient character progression even if the Shoulders are an upgrade.

    I used weak con Bears in Mesa as a bridge from completing all the useful Moors content to Level 31 and being able to request Level 35 Teek. I was Level 27, got a Mesa Mother add so turned my merc back on and dinged 28 but then killed two Bears back-to-back with auto-attack and a passive merc. It's really easy content and potentially quite rewarding since it's one of the times that you have a chance to loot the highest level defiant you can currently equip. It was also instructive that thanks to the new con system I was able to confirm the massive difference in resist rates between a +7 and +8 mob.

    If you want hand-holding you would have James the Watchmaker, Aiden Silverwing, Skal Nethus and Keefe Stearns. They do mention Castlen Drewe, Barrenzin and V'Lynn Renloe in the Level 10 email, but no email at Level 20 for James, Aiden and Skal. Franklin Teek does get mentioned if someone clicks on HJ which also suggests I do extremely inefficient things for no apparent reason. Consider the instructive value of this ach:

    Unmasking the Changelings
    - Level 20: Loot Minor Stone of Power (2ac, 5hp) in Kurn's Tower
    - Level 25: Loot Lesser Stone of Power (5mana, 5end) in Unrest
    - Level 30: Loot Stone of Power (5wis, 5int, 10mana, 10end) in Tower of Frozen Shadow
    - Level 35: Loot Greater Stone of Power (5ac, 10hp) in Lower Guk
    - Level 40: Loot Minor Stone of Might (25hp, 2svall) in The Hole
    - Level 45: Loot Lesser Stone of Might (30mana, 30end) in Chardok
    - Level 50: Loot Stone of Might (8ac, 30hp) in Old Sebilis
    - Level 55: Loot Greater Stone of Might (40mana, 40end) in Grieg's End
    - Level 60: Loot Stone of Greatness (10ac, 45hp) in Cazic Thule
    - Level 65: Loot Stone of Light (50hp, 50mana, 50end) in Splitpaw Lair

    Suggested zones for levels, aug information without needing a 3rd party site and potentially have a reward other than 10 ach points. A quest that rewards 1pp, 1gp and 2cp for delivering a Deluxe Toolbox would be extremely useful to new players. Sturdy Traveler's Pack and Ore Hauler's Haversack shouldn't be buried in Tutorials - Out of Gloomingdeep and Two Gnolls With One Stone. Melee should be directed to Treantwood Staff, Hammer of the Gnoll Slayer, Wingcrusher and Hornet's Bane. Between normally playing on FV and rarely playing Knights I don't know if they have a better low level option.

    The heavy lifting is often done to add more depth the game than grind mobs or watch a J1 merc destroy mobs while you chain cast low level spells while hoping for good luck with completely random Defiant drops, but Big Game James is largely kept a secret. Magi Curse in ToFS is pretty much the only level appropriate mobs that do more than tickle a J1 merc and Magi Curse utterly destroys level appropriate PCs.

    Server merge isn't all that helpful for new players simply because of the extreme variance in character progression. Even if I come across someone killing the same mobs, group up and enjoy their company, unless I camp out when they do and plan my playing schedule around that player there is a good chance that next time we are online at the same time there will be a 10+ level difference and if/until we both decide to gain a bunch of AA at the same level we are pretty much just going to exchange pleasantries in tells and potentially one person will feel inadequate when they go / all friends and see Mekkondy is Level 85 and they are Level 60 when a week earlier they grouped with you in BFR.

    There is vastly more content than can be done while level appropriate pre-51 other than level locking by grouping with a high level player or death looping. Because of sales to other players, much of that content is even rewarding. Starting at 51 you can optionally stop levelling. From Level 51 to 70ish your merc is going to downgrade from immortal god to average player.

    Starting around 70 you actually have motivation to upgrade your gear other than weapon ratio and a couple of focus effects, if you only play until your buffs from behind the PoK Bank on Xegony (or Guild Lobby on most servers) run out either by death or time you can make that around 90 that gear will start to matter much. The main gearing paths around 70 are Paragon (optionally lead in with Hero's vis armor from Jonas, rest of slots have various issues with obtaining when relevant), Anguish, Remnant of Tranquility, DSH gear and FV/Brekt.

    This is the hurdle for new players, own the TBM expansion, sell a Krono and you basically solve all your gearing issues with Remnant of Tranquility. Without the Krono you can do it more gradually by selling tradeskill items if that's what you enjoy doing, roughly speaking 100k is 50 cents, if you spend a day on Xegony killing low level mobs and loot 4 Ice of Velious you made about 50 cents. If the end result of wearing gear you earned through gameplay is much more satisfying it can make sense to farm Ice, if that's not the case selling 1 Krono and then doing the content you enjoy the most makes more sense.

    If new players don't go the Remnant route because they don't have the expansion or because they don't want to either sell a Krono or grind plat or because they are unaware of the option it gets a lot more complicated outside of FV/Brekt. In order to keep doing content designed for groups you actually need to improve and other than AAs the improvements generally don't come from content you are doing, you're going to want gear from The Feerrott (req 80, rec 85) to do SoF/SoD content if you don't have a group. You're going to want gear from T1 RoF (req 92, rec 95) to do Feerrott and other Thule content.

    Grouping, boxing, buffs, class, skill and knowledge all provide ample variables. I can kite naked with a high level mana regen buff easily or perform well in a group. But chances are you're going to want to gear up unless it's that kind of group. Hero's Journey helps with some gearing from Boawb/Reakash (Weapon, Shield, Mask, Belt) to Two Gnolls With One Stone (Neck, Back, Bag, Weapon) but then doesn't do much until Jonas Aug. You can get Elaborate Wrist, Gloves and Neck by completing a bunch of Sunderrock content, but you can also get the items in Acrylia Caverns while a new player doesn't have an easier source of gear on par with Hero's Chain Tunic or Paragon's Chain Tunic while those items are upgrades.

    Hero's Journey is presented as a recommended progression path and it's a brutally inefficient way for a new player to progress their character. It's a checklist for experienced players to mess around with an alt whether they make it on another server or not. For a new player it's spend hours in Stone Hive and you're almost finished, just gain another 10 levels and come back and then you can finally beat Queen Pelzia and get a few pieces of Ornate gear that are vastly more easily obtained from Franklin Teek, Keefe Stearns and weak con mobs in Mesa. Let alone the respawn time on Queen Eletyl and that even 10 more levels might not be enough once you get to BFR.

    It's possible to rework HJ but unrealistic since that level of content is essentially here are some places you can go, bringing a merc is always a good idea and loot everything with a tradeskill tag and sort it out with help from /gu, ;general, 3rd party sites or whatever other information resources are available to you. There are PoK NPCs eager to direct players to level appropriate content, there simply hasn't been time in the last 11 years to type up an in game automated email mentioning James and Aiden or in the last 8 years for Skal.
    Mithra likes this.
  12. Yimin Augur

    Pick a Nec,Bst or Mage ! These three class the most enjoyable with out any merc needed or group for me ...

  13. Wiff Elder

    If you can make it past the 60's, then you have much more patience than I do. I have tried many times to level a new toon and always bog down and quit around 60-65 depending on the class, when the J1 mercs start to get shredded by blues and you get less than 1% xp for a light blue.
    aindriuc likes this.
  14. Laronk Augur

    The biggest problem that has me not wanting to log the character in is lack of grouping options at this point, I'm not sure how a new player is supposed to make it.
  15. Aurastrider Augur

    While I patient await a response from the company I jumped in on this idea. Started a beastlord on Brekkt. I have never played on this server and I have never played a BL. The server is a serious ghost town but the BL is pretty fun so far. I have decided to not level using the modern path outside of the tutorial zone. Made it to level 12 and moved over to CB to kill some orcs. I will have to figure out where to go from here. Maybe PC for old times sake. I made about 150pp in the tutorial which helped me fill my empty gear slots once I left the tutorial and I got enough backpacks to fill my inventory and some of my bank slots.
  16. Laronk Augur

    Beastlords are pretty great, if you're using a merc the tank merc will be better than a cleric merc till around 70. It's pretty much invincible.

    Beastlords are a bunch of fun there's lots of button pressing later on.
  17. Aurastrider Augur

    Yeah having mained a ranger and sk raided with a cleric and mostly boxed pet classes I am rather impressed with the BL so far. A little tanking, healing, dps and hopefully some damage spells soon. They seem to be a well rounded class.
  18. Quatr Augur

    It depends on the zone. For example, in Grieg's End a J1 merc can easily tank light blues without heals until 71 when the gate area begins to green out. You don't even need a merc between 65 and 70+ -- GL buffs, especially DS/regen, will let you PL yourself by killing multiple mobs at a time.
  19. Rickate Augur

    Buying a Heroic Character and/or PL. To earn it in game joining a guild or being very active in ;general and turning that into a quasi-guild is very helpful. While it's quite unlikely that you'll happen across someone at the same level with a really similar play schedule to level up with if you have a large pool of potential playing partners for a day or three it will allow you to take on a wider variety of content, accelerate leveling and probably make playing more fun.

    Ach allows you to productively interact with other players pretty much from character creation, see if anyone in /gu or ;gen want a group invite when you pop a goblin alchemist in Misty Thicket. Announce in /gu or ;gen that you're leveling up in Qeynos Aqueducts until you kill all 4 named and see if anyone wants to join whether they come to the zone or not. Maybe you even get a reward in parcels for the quest of killing the mob(s). In the long term especially when/if you reach Level 80 if you have a reputation of constantly offering ach invites you could quite possibly get /taskadds or even group invites.

    You chose a path which offered basically nothing to other players, your only likely path to grouping revolved around hitting the in game lottery of someone who felt like doing the same content at a similar level and at a similar time or someone reading this thread and going, hey I have a Level 70ish alt and wanted to finish TSS HJ but bailed out around the same point he did, I'll send him a PM and see if we can work out days we can both play our alts.
  20. Laronk Augur

    I think that the heroic character isn't too bad of an option. The only problem with heroic characters for new people is its a lot of stuff at once for level 85